Best summation of vehicle fighting I've seen yet.

[Dagga Boy]

It doesn't help when one of the other guys from the same unit teaches totally contrary to getting off the car. One of the other issues we see in many videos is against multiple criminals, they inevitably will try to pull a flanking maneuver on the lone officer. It is why I try to get folks off the car enough to see an opponent coming from aroun the ends of the vehicle, and to be able to engage them uninhibited. According to the other one, this leaves you open to threats from upper stories or high ground......which I have never seen in the CONUS criminal side, but is an obvious issue with the Mogidishu world.

My best friend and long time mentor always said he treats room combat like a miniature battlefield as far as trying to maneuver against opponents to exploit their weakness. Obviously Mike Pannone is using the same principles with vehicles and it makes perfect sense. I taught several things different than most standardized LE protocols to maximize effectiveness with less risk for officers. With that said, it is also critical that very standardized felony stop procedures are used to ensure everyone is on the same page and amped up cops are not "winging" it. These things are very much a balance.

[Kevin B.]

It doesn't help when one of the other guys from the same unit teaches totally contrary to getting off the car.

Who is that?

[Dagga Boy]

Who is that?

PM sent

[Mr Pink]

http://soldiersystems.net/2016/03/12...ke-pannone-36/

Pannone lays it out exactly as it was originally taught to me by guys he originally worked with. Maybe that's confirmation bias, but I have not seen anything since to sway my opinion of the validity of it.

Great post! As someone who has done a lot of work in and around vehicles over the last few years, I agree 100% with Pannone's assessments.

[luckyman]

Holy cow big names all taking the time to point out the value of this piece. I think I've stumbled on a clue
Time to save this and read a 2nd and 3rd time slowly for comprehension and more clues.

[43Under]

I took Pannone's Street and Vehicle class last fall and we put all of these principles to work in that class. Though he never named names, I think we all knew who he was talking about when he described the stupidity of their tactics and techniques, like the 16 (or whatever the number is) points of cover and the temple index. The class was definitely LE biased, but there was plenty of gold for civvies like me. I have an AAR on my blog and can post the link if that's not violating any rules (I'm new here and don't want people to think I'm guerilla marketing or whatever).

[serialsolver]

One of the biggest issues I run into in the LE training world is the explination that vehicles are not cover. They are bullet magnet coffins and the sooner you leave it then better off you'll be. This is such an easy concept to understand and yet to difficult for people to accept.

Cops have a guard the fort mentally when it comes to patrol cars it's their rolling turf, it's got their stuff in it, it's got their extra guns an ammo in them, it's got the better radio in them, if they don't take care of the patrol car they can get into trouble or even lose their job. Cops are indirectly trained to stay with the patrol car by administration policies.


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[Gray222]

Cops have a guard the fort mentally when it comes to patrol cars it's their rolling turf, it's got their stuff in it, it's got their extra guns an ammo in them, it's got the better radio in them, if they don't take care of the patrol car they can get into trouble or even lose their job. Cops are indirectly trained to stay with the patrol car by administration policies.


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Yes, this this very true and I do my best to explain to everyone and anyone who will listen that leaving the patrol vehicle is perfectly acceptable and should be done.

"Cars are death traps" I repeat every chance I get.

[Failure2Stop]

I like it.

[Dagga Boy]

I took Pannone's Street and Vehicle class last fall and we put all of these principles to work in that class. Though he never named names, I think we all knew who he was talking about when he described the stupidity of their tactics and techniques, like the 16 (or whatever the number is) points of cover and the temple index. The class was definitely LE biased, but there was plenty of gold for civvies like me. I have an AAR on my blog and can post the link if that's not violating any rules (I'm new here and don't want people to think I'm guerilla marketing or whatever).

There is some valid reasons for the temple index in a car, and there are are places on the vehicle that are cover, especially for handguns and 5.56. I teach things a bit different, but there are some things taught by others that have been a result of other folks valid experiences. In the case of the cross chest versus the temple index...I find the temple index more useful for some vehicle activities. Keep in mind that real working LE folks spend most of their careers deploying from essentially a domestic passenger car. Not helicopters,tanks, apc's, hmmv's, mraps, boats, submarines, parachute, or fast ropes. It is actually a subject they are fairly well versed in and should not be discounted based on their resume not being tier 1 enough.