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Thread: Semi-Auto Triggers: market trends, choices, and consequences

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Jones View Post
    I doubt I'll be able to do for the SD9 what EL did for the PX4, but I'll try.



    The SD9 is 100% SCD-able with a Glock-style drop-in SCD. I can't comment on future products and availability, but I will say that I own 4 or 5 SD9s.


    ETA: HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!

    Attachment 18971

    That's a current Glock SCD on a SD9. The fit is not perfect, but it locks into place, works, and demonstrates that with only minimal modification a SD9/40 SCD is possible.

    I feel teased! That's awesome to see.
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  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duelist View Post
    SOP. IOW, they have to.
    Maybe but there's usually a supposed reason for SOP's.
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  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Jones View Post
    I suspect it's the same reason you are required to pull the trigger on a unload and show clear in competition, to prove the gun is in fact unloaded.
    Pretty much- just in case after all the other steps, you still had a round in your weapon- pulling the trigger pretty much made sure you didn't anymore.
    This country needs an enema- Blues approved sig line
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  4. #164
    Site Supporter Mjolnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breakingtime91 View Post
    Hard to argue against a series 80 1911. it is a really good option if you feel like you need redundant safeties.
    I prefer the 70 Series (easier to get a crisp trigger break & fewer parts).

    I rather like that I rely on myself to activate the manual safety. But when I first started carrying I chose a Gov't Model and took it to every carbine and pistol class for seven years. So it's second nature.

    Second Nature.... that would imply familiarity due to extended proper usage of a mechanism or machine.

    And therein lies the key to whatever system we choose. We are human and we are adaptable as a species. So *ALL* data will be confounded.

    Conduct your own Failure Mode Analysis, come up with a workaround for each one. Really assess your proposed workaround. Establish a numerical value to the strength of your workaround and how likely you are to ALWAYS perform the task and the difficulty of the proposed task.

    Then choose your system and train on it.

    At the end of the day it's a slingshot; a primitive tool to sling 115 to 147 grains of copper jacketed lead projectiles.



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  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Jones View Post
    I suspect it's the same reason you are required to pull the trigger on a unload and show clear in competition, to prove the gun is in fact unloaded.
    Doesn't sound like it works too well. In the 20 or so years I carried the M9 we never had that particular step in our clearing procedures and it worked well. Even if one tried, at that point the safety was on so no point in it.
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  6. #166
    Site Supporter Trukinjp13's Avatar
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    Okay, that was a lot to digest. This thread has a lot going on lmao.

    1- It is very hard for me to get behind a striker gun being equally as safe as a tda/dao. If you are properly TRAINED. Which if you are carrying a weapon, no matter the trigger you should be. How is having all the built in features of a tda gun not safer? Between the weight, length of pull, hammer to check and to manage the trigger. Even a striker with a scd still has a shorter travel and less pull weight.

    2. Reminds me of why I carry my px4cc. I am comfortable with the platform and can shoot the gun damn well.

    3. I recently picked up a p-10c. I really enjoy shooting her. The trigger is definitely "easier" to shoot then my px4cc. But I do not shoot it better. I would really like a scd for it. I may actually carry it if so. Until then it is a range gun.

    4. Since the p-10c is built a lot like a Glock is the drop safety of it also the same? I am curious to this.

    5. Debates are good. Lets people see both sides to a discussion. Hopefully it will also help people who might be leaning one way or another.


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  7. #167
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustOneGun View Post
    Turns out if I have 70% striker and 20% DA/SA and 10% 1911 that's the ratio of screw ups I get over time. They were put through the same training, same everything and made the same mistakes with the same outcomes.
    I'm still waiting for what data you used to make this determination, a rough idea of how many UDs in total we're talking, and how you kept track of how many people used each system.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustOneGun View Post
    Tracked five years, average of 35 recruits per class, average 3 classes per year (hi was 53? and low was 15?.) High number of classes was 5 in a year and low was 2). Sadly I'm an old retiree. No more access. While I can be a PITA, even in retirement I'm not willing to buck the department and give you info even if I had it. I value my healthcare and LEOSA both of which would/could be effected still.

    One of the great things about police instruction is I get to track each one for weeks (if they are other agencies) and years if they are ours. I got to see how many holstered with a cocked DA/SA. How many holstered without engaging the 1911 safety. Obviously that is a pure number. I didn't track it. They were retrained and if they didn't fix it, they were thrown off the range, not to be an officer. Not much tracking of the individual there.
    How many UDs did the 525-ish have in those weeks or years? We don't know your department, the notion that you'll lose your healthcare for posting a rough number seems odd, but ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustOneGun View Post
    Sorry I don't have the data. Just the trends...If you want some hard numbers it would be better to agree to disagree. I don't think any numbers would make you happy. Not only can I not give them, I also admitted that if I had the raw numbers I wouldn't give them to you. It's not only bad for me but raw numbers can be easily manipulated by misusing stats in the same way you and I disagree on how to interpret how changing a physical construct of a trigger can make something better or worse
    How do you misinterpret the number of UDs with each given system? Disagreeing is one thing. Indicating you have data you don't is another. I'll ask again. Did you ever actually have hard numbers or is this anecdotal based on what you recall.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustOneGun View Post
    And you are correct. That is one of the legitimate reasons gov and companies don't keep intricate stats. But they do keep basic stats looking for the trends.
    You said you tracked UDs for 5 years, and apparently with enough precision to verify that the ratios were exactly the same as the ratio of platform types. That doesn't jive.

    You presented something as fact. If it's your opinion, that's fine. If you wish to present it as fact based on data you collected over 5 years, it doesn't seem like too big an ask to know total number of UDs, the circumstances, etc. Are we talking accidental shots into the berm? Are we talking shot door panels in the parking lot during admin handling, what?

    For the record, our department does not hide UDs. Every single in-service at the range we are reminded of specific events that led to UDs during training so as to not repeat them. We've yet to have an injury at the range, thank God, but we have had a cleaning cabinet, a table, and a vehicle get an unwanted hole. All were during admin handling, and at least two were pulling the trigger to break down the gun. You'll also catch a suspension for having one and it's tracked in software that tracks all your (and the departments) attaboys and aw shits.
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  8. #168
    Site Supporter PNWTO's Avatar
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    Like Tom said, same reason as comps and whatnot.
    "Do nothing which is of no use." -Musashi

    What would TR do? TRCP BHA
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  9. #169
    Site Supporter hufnagel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GardoneVT View Post
    At home when it's time to clean the pistol there's additional distractions. Having a risk mitigation trigger system in place can serve as a final warning before Disaster Happens.
    To be Captain Obvious, perhaps the choice to clean ones pistol while there are distractions about is a poor life choice?
    Rules to live by: 1. Eat meat, 2. Shoot guns, 3. Fire, 4. Gasoline, 5. Make juniors
    TDA: Learn it. Live it. Love it.... Read these: People Management Triggers 1, 2, 3
    If anyone sees a broken image of mine, please PM me.
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  10. #170
    Site Supporter hufnagel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Jones View Post
    I doubt I'll be able to do for the SD9 what EL did for the PX4, but I'll try.



    The SD9 is 100% SCD-able with a Glock-style drop-in SCD. I can't comment on future products and availability, but I will say that I own 4 or 5 SD9s.


    ETA: HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!

    Attachment 18971

    That's a current Glock SCD on a SD9. The fit is not perfect, but it locks into place, works, and demonstrates that with only minimal modification a SD9/40 SCD is possible.
    If it'll work on an SD9VE, you might have just sold me on a SCD and an SD9VE.
    Rules to live by: 1. Eat meat, 2. Shoot guns, 3. Fire, 4. Gasoline, 5. Make juniors
    TDA: Learn it. Live it. Love it.... Read these: People Management Triggers 1, 2, 3
    If anyone sees a broken image of mine, please PM me.
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