Tactical training for the CCW holder

[Salamander]

A few random observations:

The realities of a busy professional life are that while I'm at the range at least once a week (when not on business travel), formal training is harder to do frequently. There are the same few local guys, only one of whom I consider to be reasonably competent. Realistically, I usually need to travel to get a serious class.

Related to the above, there seem to be relatively few higher-end training opportunities in northern California. I'm willing to travel when I can, up to a point, but it's hard for me to recommend to the average CCW guy that he get on an airplane and hassle with TSA in addition to class costs and trying to figure out how to get ammo on the other end.

Situational awareness skills are astonishingly scarce up here, at least in the human encounter sense. Plenty of guys who are good in the woods, lifelong hunters or woodsmen, but urban skills... well, they're best acquired in urban areas. Up here four hours drive from anywhere big, I'm frequently amazed when somebody walks behind my parked car just as I put it in reverse, and never even notices. So the folks here need classes in something I learned before age five in inner city Chicago. I'm assuming there are other things some of them could teach me. My point is that geography and experience and cultural background affect what one "knows."

Many of us on P-F perhaps assume some level of physical competence, and I completely agree that it's helpful in many potential encounters. The sad reality is that some of the guys at my local range are pretty fair shots at a static target but are over 65 and have trouble getting into their pickup truck at the end of the night. So, how do we train for those guys relative to someone younger and more agile and flexible?

[HCM]

I find this difficult to articulate but here goes... From my prospective of student/teacher(no SME by any means) and from experience with victims, witnesses and perps in a legal context, whether it is part of mindset or some other category, the average CCW student/holder needs to understand the "reality" of a violent assault. Most of the people in the above contexts I encounter don't have any concept of the likelihood of being assaulted (this can never happen to me coupled with "why would anyone want to hurt me"), the speed it happens (see Givens: "itallhappenedsofasthecameoutofnowhereIdidntgetago odlookathim"), and the unrealistic nature of their expectation of what they could or would do in the event it happened-mainly going to get things and the leisurely pace that they think it will all happen.

One other area is dispelling the magic talisman effect that CCW imparts to some people-that they are rendered safe by carrying a gun or worse "I just want it for my car". They are then fully intoxicated with the idea that they can go violate Farnham's Rule of 3 Stupids with impunity.

My experience with some of my customers that truly qualify as apex predators, is that they really couldn't care less that Joe Public might be carrying, and are only moderately concerned about the average police officer being armed. The average street criminal I have dealt with cares that Joe Public might be carrying in the abstract, but in the moment are more concerned with what appears to be an easy take.

Based on my nearly 20 years as an LEO, you sir, nailed it. This is the foundation for everything else.

The Ballistic Radio podcasts featuring Southnarc and Dr. William April provide a great intro to these concepts and i recommended them to family and friends who ask about self defense and getting a gun/ CHL.

[HopetonBrown]

there seem to be relatively few higher-end training opportunities in northern California.

I respectfully disagree. Between San Jose and Sacramento these instructors have been in Northern California in the past 18 months. It's a bit of an "all star" cast, really.

Ken Hackathorn
Larry Vickers
Bob Vogel
Rob Haught
Mike Pannone
Frank Proctor
Louis Awerbuck (RIP)
Mike Seeklander
Chris Costa
Travis Haley

Louis Awerbuck taught for years at Reed's in Santa Clara, California, which is an hour south from San Francisco. Mike Lamb is a well respected instructor who regularly teaches out in San Jose. Southnarc has upcoming classes in Sacramento and San Francisco.

[RJ]

I thought about this a bit, and would like to offer a prospective Student's point of view of what I'd like to see in a CCW.

Warning: I am not .mil, LE, or that familiar with guns. But I've spent 30+ years as a contractor in the Aerospace area, designing and building training systems for major DoD and international customers. By education I am a EE, my job title says Systems Engineer.

Rich in Tampa

CONCEALED CARRY TRAINING 101

At the end of this Course, a motivated citizen with minimal training, who is familiar with their CCW, and has an interest in better understanding of the responsibilities that come with Concealed Carry, will be able to:

(A) Knowledge

Understand how and when to employ a CCW and its implications

(B) Skills

Safely Demonstrate proficiency with their CCW

SYLLABUS

<MORNING>

Class Overview Segment

Introductions
What do you expect to achieve out of this class?
Review Course Syllabus

Safety and Equipment Segment

Being confident in your carry Equipment
Carry options (holster, purse, backpack, vehicle, RV)
Why SD ammo is not Target ammo
Practical carry methods demonstration

Everyday life while carrying Segment

Situational awareness
What do you do when legally stopped by a LEO (example: speeding)
Concealed carry in a parked RV
How to avoid using your CCW in the first place

Understanding a typical CCW encounter Segment

Verbal commands - Do you say anything? What?
Can you display your CCW and not shoot?
When to reveal your CCW - How (and when) do you physically transition from concealed to finger on trigger?
When do you stop shooting?
Dealing with multiple threats?
When and how do you reholster?
Using Cover and concealment
Rendering first aid for the person you just shot
What does a LEO arriving on scene want you to do?

Legal and Social Issues Segment

Transitioning from the gunfight back to 'normalcy' - how do you do that?
Dealing with the psychological aftermath of taking a life
Long term effects on finances, family
Dealing with the legal system
Finding a good attorney

<LUNCH>

OPTIONAL LUNCH SEGMENT: Equipment options - Use students 'actual' equipment and discuss options / suggested changes.

<AFTERNOON>

Practical Shooting Skills Segment

Skills and Drills to reinforce the above
Give students a Practice program to follow the drills
Followed by sufficient range time on all of the above

Conclusion and wrap up Segment

Review Objectives
Q&A Session
Commitment to more training

[RJ]

The Ballistic Radio podcasts featuring Southnarc and Dr. William April provide a great intro to these concepts and i recommended them to family and friends who ask about self defense and getting a gun/ CHL.

Thanks for the tip. I added these podcasts to my feed.

Rich

[LittleLebowski]

Thanks for the tip. I added these podcasts to my feed.

Rich

Grab the Sean M one as well: http://ballisticradio.com/2013/05/06...-9-may-5-2013/

[MVS]

I started teaching in 2010 because I saw patterns in the firearms training industry that I didn't like. I hoped that I could do the shooters one better than I'd been seeing.

I didn't like dogmatic instruction, I didn't like lots of down time and long lunches, and I didn't like low round counts and a slow tempo when it was time to shoot. I didn't like irrelevant war stories or trash-talking other instructors in the industry. I didn't like hero-worship from student cliques, and I didn't like very specialized techniques and tactics thoughtlessly pawned off as great for general consumption. I didn't like the complete inability of most shooting instructors to properly diagnose shooting. I didn't like students playing dress-up and screwing around when I was trying to learn. And I really didn't like when instructors seemed to just "phone it in".

So I decided to do my best to effect change.

The tactics, techniques, and procedures I teach are rooted in analysis of proven military, law enforcement, and competition methods. I run all of this material through a filter to give people everything they need and nothing they don't.

I use a systematic approach to training: I design and develop my clinics and courses from the best available information and tailor them to the responsible armed citizen. I strive to continually evaluate the implementation of my programs to ensure that I'm responsive to student needs and current events. My goal is to provide armed citizens with the necessary tools to prevail against a lethal threat in the everyday world. I start with training the fundamentals, then move to training the middle of the statistical bell curve for civilian armed encounters, then move to training for outliers on that bell curve. To supplement the full coursework, I run half day clinics to provide high intensity training for experienced shooters, as well as development opportunities for newer shooters.

Tom Givens does a huge amount of it right. Craig Douglas does a huge amount of it right. Pat Goodale's Practical Firearms Training does a huge amount of it right. Others have pieces parts which are very, very good.

Jay, I agree with a lot of what you are saying here. Looking at your training resume on your website I wonder if some of those classes you took are the things that caused you to feel this way, or if some of them were your correction? If none of these classes were what got you around to your current point of view, how did you get from A to B and what makes what you are doing different from the things you said you didn't like? Did you just make the new stuff up? I am not criticizing as your training history does not look all that different from mine and my thoughts have definitely evolved.

[MVS]

As a new shooter with 0 experience, I've been reading this thread with interest.

It struck me though, that the above list made a lot of sense, and these topics really resonated with me.

A Club near me offers a 'Personal Protection in the home" course my wife and I have been kicking around going to. I'll go re read the syllabus, feeling more informed for having ya'll share your thoughts here.

Genuine thanks for doing so.

Rich in Tampa

Can I assume the class you are talking about is NRA? This is funny from a labeling and common sense perspective, but that class is required to get your CPL (Concealed Pistol License) in MI. If you are truly new to handguns, it might not be a bad place to start. If not, it will probably frustrate you greatly. My takeaway from the class was them insinuating that no matter what the circumstances were, if you had to shoot someone it was going to cost you millions of dollars and ruin your life. That can vary somewhat by the instructor but the NRA is pretty rigid in its syllabus.

[Dagga Boy]

I respectfully disagree. Between San Jose and Sacramento these instructors have been in Northern California in the past 18 months. It's a bit of an "all star" cast, really.

Ken Hackathorn
Larry Vickers
Bob Vogel
Rob Haught
Mike Pannone
Frank Proctor
Louis Awerbuck (RIP)
Mike Seeklander
Chris Costa
Travis Haley

Louis Awerbuck taught for years at Reed's in Santa Clara, California, which is an hour south from San Francisco. Mike Lamb is a well respected instructor who regularly teaches out in San Jose. Southnarc has upcoming classes in Sacramento and San Francisco.

Don't take this wrong, as most of that list are friends, and I have trained with most of them. There will not be a ton of what the typical CCW holder needs as far as situational awareness, threat assessment, appropriate use of force, high level discretionary shooting, not shooting, discussions on what is going to happen post shooting and how to deal with L/E, including how to not get shot by responding LE, etc. That is not in anyway shape or form a ding at those instructors as they are generally there to teach the shooting part of the process and is what they are in demand for. The reality is that most folks are using the gun store, internet and TV for their CCW force training and there is not much as far as neat and cool factor in teaching a lot of what I listed above.

With all that said, if I lived in Norcal, I would be training with Mike Lamb a lot. He is very under-rated and is one of the genius minds in our community. Driving to SoCal for Scott Reitz would also be a regular thing.

The big issue is that there are a bunch of folks out there who are very knowledgeable on many of these subjects (including some of those on the list above). They just aren't very in demand for classes and a lot of folks are far more interested in going to classes for how to shoot better and not how to avoid shooting at all, and if you have to how to be "right".

[MVS]

.
I was basing my response more to the PF Crowd - as a baseline -- not to the national average. I believe a number of folks here take classes regularly (1/month, or 1 every 2 months), and shoot at least 1/week.

..

That would be great, but I feel you are being wonderfully optimistic. I have been to a number of good (and not so good) forums, and even worked and moderated at one that was started just to push the training company, and have never seen numbers that were in reality that high. Yes I am new to posting here, but have been following since I took one of Todd's classes in 2011 and if the numbers were really that high among the majority it would really surprise me.