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Thread: Semi-Auto Triggers: market trends, choices, and consequences

  1. #281
    Member StraitR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    I actually think strikers are just as safe mechanically and safer from a human factors, gun handling standpoint than other types of triggers.

    I seem to be a minority on PF. I think what we are debating in this thread is exactly how true the truisms in your post are.
    I completely agree on the second part, but please expound on the first. I've heard the just as safe many times, but never safer. Curious on your thoughts.

    ETA: No matter what your reasons, I won't be debating them. Arguing online is pretty much the epitome of wasting time. I just like to hear other people's perspectives in an effort to see things from as many angles as possible. Maybe I ultimately change my mind, maybe I don't.

    When I started reading PF six years ago, a lot of my perceptions were shattered, and many more since.
    Last edited by StraitR; 08-14-2017 at 06:29 PM.
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  2. #282
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    DAB, as they say in court, you've assumed facts not in evidence. I'm done with this. Time to find that ignore button, I'm afraid.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

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  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by StraitR View Post
    I completely agree on the second part, but please expound on the first. I've heard the just as safe many times, but never safer. Curious on your thoughts.

    ETA: No matter what your reasons, I won't be debating them. Arguing online is pretty much the epitome of wasting time. I just like to hear other people's perspectives in an effort to see things from as many angles as possible. Maybe I ultimately change my mind, maybe I don't.

    When I started reading PF six years ago, a lot of my perceptions were shattered, and many more since.
    At least you are open to other view points.

    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    DAB, as they say in court, you've assumed facts not in evidence. I'm done with this. Time to find that ignore button, I'm afraid.
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  4. #284
    Site Supporter Trukinjp13's Avatar
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    I agree with blues on this one. My wife is a good shot. Sf,tda, revolver,1911. But, but she has zero interest in learning the manual of arms of a semi auto. Let alone different trigger systems. I have her shoot to shoot. She knows how to be safe, where to point it and where not to point it. But as far as training and spending time on the range, no go. I respect that she is willing to shoot though. Because she understands that there may come a time when she needs to pick up a gun and use it. I am not going to force her to learn something she does not want to. I also know there are other women with a different mindset. There is no dig in our assessment of our wives toward females. I also know males who are the same way.







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  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by StraitR View Post
    I didn't comment on "the difference a DA/SA makes to many peoples progress", so I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with from my previous post.

    I simply said there are absolute differences in the two trigger systems when it comes to performance and safety, no matter how small they may be. Everything past "personal choice" above is you reading too much into what I said.

    That being said, I don't agree with the sentiment that new shooters need strikers to avoid an untimely performance stall which could get them killed in the streets. We can just agree to disagree because neither of us will change the mind of the other. We simply differ in our prioritization of safety and performance, and that's ok. It doesn't make you an unsafe shooter and it doesn't mean I have low performance standards, it means we see things differently.

    My reply on different performance for newer shooters is what I added as a reason I disagree with you. I wasn't trying to suggest you said it.

    You're implying that I suggested a new shooter will be killed in the streets unless they use a striker is incorrect. You do know people do get their asses shot, "In da streets." And because people don't walk around with a high speed camera on them doesn't mean we should just ignore reasons why they got shot, just because the reasons are hard to, "see". We know what happens using forensics that some gunfights end with the good guy shot after having one or more shots fired from their gun. After investigation we find the bad guy didn't have any bullets in him. The good guy missed. Is it wrong to question if that missed bullet could have changed the dynamics of the gunfight? If not is it wrong to question why the good guy missed? If experience as a trainer shows that the perceived benefit of certain system just isn't true where does that leave us? That the actual truth of what is happening is counter intuitive is what allows us to stick to preconceived notions in police work for decades.

    If you read my last few posts you will see the words, could and might. Again, I have the experience to see those floundering shooter and to see how/what works to help them. I have the experience to see how and what makes people have accidents. I've seen and experienced the trends of this topic. Again, if you say JOG you're wrong. I'm going to carry this. No big deal. We are all big boys and girls here. As you say, we can agree to disagree. But if you're advocating new people do this, I'll fill a few pages each time to explain, "That's not what's actually happening." And if you're going to purchase 1100 DA/SA pistols for your department I will fill a few pages to explain how you are not helping but making it worse for everyone over a period of time and making it much worse for a certain segment of those 1100.
    What you do right before you know you're going to be in a use of force incident, often determines the outcome of that use of force.
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  6. #286
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAB View Post
    i've read too many posts where some man concludes that some woman is best served with a "simple" revolver.

    women are just as capable as men at understanding and using all manner of mechanical devices, such as cars, trucks, busses, large machinery, and even guns.

    if they haven't been brought up around firearms, then they have a little to learn to get up to speed. so teach them. encourage them. support them. you might need them someday, and I bet you hope they are a very good shot with the best gun they can safely handle in their possession.
    I've talked to plenty of men who were so capable with their mechanical device they had a new hole in their body they didn't want.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAB View Post
    and if someone is not interested in learning how to shoot, that's fine too. but we shouldn't assume that women should be shoved toward the revolver display because they are "simple". let women decide what works for each one. i wouldn't dare pick out clothes or accessories for a woman, and likewise, I wouldn't try to pick out a pistol for one either. show them the whole range, let them fire as many as possible, and then they can decide what works for their needs.

    i picked out what works for me, same applies to anyone else.
    Nobody in this thread other than you has introduced the notion sex has anything to do with gun selection.
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  7. #287
    Site Supporter Trukinjp13's Avatar
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    Semi-Auto Triggers: market trends, choices, and consequences

    I honestly feel that if a department is trying to issue the safest useable firearm. It should be a p30 9mm lem. They are light and ergonomic for all shooters. They carry lots of bullets. The trigger is constant and safe. Also has ambi controls. Has a hammer to thumb and watch the stroke. It is also not a heavy trigger. It will require training. But what does not? At least in this case you are training to shoot not hit buttons or switches.

    (Darryl Bolke on threat management and the lem is simply amazing)

    It may not be the safest first pull or the fastest to shoot. But it is overall one of the best bets for the masses.

    EVERYONE is different. Some are capable of learning some are not. Some are not comfortable with that da shot some are. I can not think of a situation where one pistol can actually fill all roles. I think a da/sa that is used properly is safer then a sf. But a sf is also easier to shoot and some can actually shoot better. I carry a da/sa but I may switch my bedstand gun to a p-10c. Simply because you pick it up and pull the trigger. If my wife has to or whatever the situation it is easy to shoot and shoot well. But I think that a nightstand gun is a different role. It will not be holstered and unholstered nor ccw. It will be used when it needs to be shot. Not threat management, I am not a police officer and will not be dictating someone in my home sorry.


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    Last edited by Trukinjp13; 08-14-2017 at 07:22 PM.
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  8. #288
    Member StraitR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustOneGun View Post
    My reply on different performance for newer shooters is what I added as a reason I disagree with you. I wasn't trying to suggest you said it.

    You're implying that I suggested a new shooter will be killed in the streets unless they use a striker is incorrect. You do know people do get their asses shot, "In da streets." And because people don't walk around with a high speed camera on them doesn't mean we should just ignore reasons why they got shot, just because the reasons are hard to, "see". We know what happens using forensics that some gunfights end with the good guy shot after having one or more shots fired from their gun. After investigation we find the bad guy didn't have any bullets in him. The good guy missed. Is it wrong to question if that missed bullet could have changed the dynamics of the gunfight? If not is it wrong to question why the good guy missed? If experience as a trainer shows that the perceived benefit of certain system just isn't true where does that leave us? That the actual truth of what is happening is counter intuitive is what allows us to stick to preconceived notions in police work for decades.

    If you read my last few posts you will see the words, could and might. Again, I have the experience to see those floundering shooter and to see how/what works to help them. I have the experience to see how and what makes people have accidents. I've seen and experienced the trends of this topic. Again, if you say JOG you're wrong. I'm going to carry this. No big deal. We are all big boys and girls here. As you say, we can agree to disagree. But if you're advocating new people do this, I'll fill a few pages each time to explain, "That's not what's actually happening." And if you're going to purchase 1100 DA/SA pistols for your department I will fill a few pages to explain how you are not helping but making it worse for everyone over a period of time and making it much worse for a certain segment of those 1100.

    None of what your saying is germane to what I posted. Both times now, actually. Have a good night.
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  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by StraitR View Post
    None of what your saying is germane to what I posted. Both times now, actually. Have a good night.


    Actually both my replies were spot on as to why I believe you are wrong in your assessment and why I believe I'm correct. Agreeing to disagree is fair enough for both of us. But trying to win an argument with a dismissive argument is intellectually dishonest or lazy. It's so....internet.
    What you do right before you know you're going to be in a use of force incident, often determines the outcome of that use of force.
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  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by JustOneGun View Post
    Actually both my replies were spot on as to why I believe you are wrong in your assessment and why I believe I'm correct. Agreeing to disagree is fair enough for both of us. But trying to win an argument with a dismissive argument is intellectually dishonest or lazy. It's so....internet.
    I am trying to remember the last time anyone won an argument on Pistol-Forum, or for that matter the internet. If I could have a few mulligans, it would be to have stopped before things reached the win/lose stage, because generally everyone loses then, and the exchange of information happened well before.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
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