LE UOF Video thread

[HCM]

Is that a Beretta 92 at the 2:22 mark? I thought those things were long gone.

Possibly.

LAPD changes the gun they issue recruits in the Academy a periodically but they don’t re-issue / change over the whole department. Previously issued / approved duty guns are grandfathered. If officers want to to switch to a newer gun they have to buy the gun and support gear.

There are a couple factors that work here one is that the only thing cheaper than a cop is two cops. Another is that Rookie cops always wanna appear to be salty so after the switch to striker fired guns many newer Officers trained on striker guns wanted to switch to “old school” DA/SA guns.

[HCM]

Is that a Beretta 92 at the 2:22 mark? I thought those things were long gone.

Just re-watched - yes that’s a beretta 92 covering just before the suspect gets cuffed.

[Ichiban]

Just re-watched - yes that’s a beretta 92 covering just before the suspect gets cuffed.

Somewhere Martin Riggs and John McClane are smiling.

Trivia alert: The same prop gun was used in both movies.

[HCM]

Somewhere Martin Riggs and John McClane are smiling.

Trivia alert: The same prop gun was used in both movies.

So the way it was explained to me, in LAPD you are authorized for whatever type of firearm you trained with in the Academy, DA/SA or striker fired. You can then choose among the authorized options for that category. So if you went through the Academy with the Beretta 92, you can carry the Beretta or the smith and Wesson TDA options. If you went through with a striker, fired gun, your options are Glock, Smith, and Wesson, M&P or the new FN 509.

If you want to carry a different category of gun than what you went through the Academy with, you have to go through a transition school.

If you want to carry a 1911/2011 you need to meet the proficiency requirements, buy the gun and all support gear (holsters, mags etc) and do a transition school. My understanding is the school is 3 days.

[SoCalDep]

Also trying to not MMQB this, but, is it standard procedure to draw your sidearm and transfer to support hand before opening the cruiser door? Seems like a recipe for TURDs (TM pending). Kinda like having pistol and Taser out simultaneously.

This is something that I used to think was sheer stupidity which was a huge failure of mine as an instructor. Those of us who "know better" generally like to find excuses for poor performance or make fun of it, but rarely do we actually sit down, disect it, and try to fix it.

I thought this was ineptitude until I almost did it myself. My agency is big... not necessarily a greater percentage of problems, but more problems than most small agencies so we can better see trends. The VAST majority of unintentional discharges in a field environment involve switching the handgun to the support hand. Since mid 2015 we've made a huge campaign of teaching our people to leave the gun in the strong hand except in exigent circumstances such as an injury. We still teach support hand shooting but set it in that context.

So here's the problem with us as instructors. We think this mistake is stupidity so we ridicule and we tell people not to do this and think we did our job. Telling people not to do it is like telling people not to sneeze. People do what people do. The key is to understand why. The reason is because we (people) are used to opening doors and doing stuff with our strong hand. We have our entire lives put things from our strong hand into our support to accomplish tasks such as opening doors. If the immediate task at hand is to open a door, without without prior thought, training, and practice, especially when stressed and not able to think through problems, we're likely to do what we are used to doing. Thus, the thing in the hand that opens doors goes away and the door gets opened with the strong hand. It doesn't matter how many times you say "don't do that"...

As a firearm instructor or tactics instructor - if you're not making this a clear and effective part of your training with concepts such as teaching the affirmative "keep the gun in the strong hand and open the door with the support hand" (instead of teaching "don't do this) and reinforcing it over time - your people 100% are switching the gun and the odds will eventually catch up. (They'll still do it... but we're trying to minimize the odds)

I’m guessing that maybe they mean a n unintended discharge in the field in action as opposed to a negligent discharge in the office, home, or elsewhere?

That's exactly what that term means. We (not LAPD but I know a bit about that department) separate unintentional discharges into administrative and tactical for the purposes of determining causal factors and levels of responsibility. An example would be that one would hope everyone understands (one would hope...) that hanging a pistol off of a bathroom stall coat hook is a bad idea. Thus doing that could be considered serious complacency and a pretty blatant violation of basic safety principles. Climbing a ladder to clear an attic and slippling, cranking off a round when the fingers clench is not a good thing, but clearly more understandable than the prior example. Both are bad but one is more irresponsible behavior.

Possibly.

LAPD changes the gun they issue recruits in the Academy a periodically but they don’t re-issue / change over the whole department. Previously issued / approved duty guns are grandfathered. If officers want to to switch to a newer gun they have to buy the gun and support gear.

There are a couple factors that work here one is that the only thing cheaper than a cop is two cops. Another is that Rookie cops always wanna appear to be salty so after the switch to striker fired guns many newer Officers trained on striker guns wanted to switch to “old school” DA/SA guns.

This is correct. Whatever handgun one is issued in the academy is the handgun they will be "issued" throughout their career. If they were issued the Beretta, that's what they'll be issued until they leave or retire. If they want to carry a striker-fired pistol they have to buy their own and attend a class. If they want to carry a DA/SA pistol and they went through with a striker it's the same thing. Buy their own and take the class.

With 1911s they have to pre-qualify (It used to be "expert" on their bonus course, but now I think it might be "sharpshooter" (one step down)), purchase their own pistols, and then attend the three-day class.

There are some exceptions such as the pistols issued to some special units, but most of the members of those units don't carry the issued pistols anyway.

There is certainly truth to the "cops are cheap" mentality, but I would say that with one of the main cool-guy guns on both big LA area departments now being the Staccato the cheapness is certainly not universal.

Both LAPD and LASD still have a good amount of Berettas in service, though a significant minority compared to striker-fired pistols overall.

[El Cid]

This is correct. Whatever handgun one is issued in the academy is the handgun they will be "issued" throughout their career. If they were issued the Beretta, that's what they'll be issued until they leave or retire. If they want to carry a striker-fired pistol they have to buy their own and attend a class. If they want to carry a DA/SA pistol and they went through with a striker it's the same thing. Buy their own and take the class.

With 1911s they have to pre-qualify (It used to be "expert" on their bonus course, but now I think it might be "sharpshooter" (one step down)), purchase their own pistols, and then attend the three-day class.

There are some exceptions such as the pistols issued to some special units, but most of the members of those units don't carry the issued pistols anyway.

There is certainly truth to the "cops are cheap" mentality, but I would say that with one of the main cool-guy guns on both big LA area departments now being the Staccato the cheapness is certainly not universal.

Both LAPD and LASD still have a good amount of Berettas in service, though a significant minority compared to striker-fired pistols overall.

I’m curious. Let’s say a Beretta trained officer goes through the steps to carry a Staccato or Glock. Do they keep both guns on their roster and have to qual with both? Or do they forfeit being allowed to carry the previous pistol?

[SoCalDep]

I’m curious. Let’s say a Beretta trained officer goes through the steps to carry a Staccato or Glock. Do they keep both guns on their roster and have to qual with both? Or do they forfeit being allowed to carry the previous pistol?

I don’t know for sure but when I took their 1911 class they made a point that when they passed the class they needed to have their pistol “added” to their record so I’m guessing they “can” qual with both.

I know with LASD one can switch whenever they want so long as they are certified and qualified on the gun they switch to. If one decided to carry a 1911 for three years, only qualified with that pistol, and then wanted to go back to their issued or other personal optional gun with which they are certified (passed the optional pistol class), they just have to shoot a standard qualification and if other than the first quarter the qualification for that period then they can carry the other pistol.

If they are certified with each type of pistol and qualify with all of them they could switch to a different pistol every day if they wanted to.

[RoyGBiv]

https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_r...o611yfglrz.mp4


https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_r...o611yfglrz.mp4

[TheNewbie]

I don’t know for sure but when I took their 1911 class they made a point that when they passed the class they needed to have their pistol “added” to their record so I’m guessing they “can” qual with both.

I know with LASD one can switch whenever they want so long as they are certified and qualified on the gun they switch to. If one decided to carry a 1911 for three years, only qualified with that pistol, and then wanted to go back to their issued or other personal optional gun with which they are certified (passed the optional pistol class), they just have to shoot a standard qualification and if other than the first quarter the qualification for that period then they can carry the other pistol.

If they are certified with each type of pistol and qualify with all of them they could switch to a different pistol every day if they wanted to.

Are there any revolver guys left at LAPD or LASD?

I read a story a few years ago (less than 10) about two long time LAPD partners that were still carrying revolvers (model 67?).

[SoCalDep]

Are there any revolver guys left at LAPD or LASD?

I read a story a few years ago (less than 10) about two long time LAPD partners that were still carrying revolvers (model 67?).

I don't know if there are any more revolvers as primary duty guns with LAPD. I know LASD prohibited revolvers for primary duty guns way back in the early 90's after the Beretta transition. Many people fought it and some (especially some reserves) carried revolvers into the mid-late 90s but no way would that fly as of when I got hired in 2002. We still use them for off-duty or backup use, and they are still popular. They've been getting less popular with the Shields and P365s. We changed our academy program a few years ago and when I re-wrote it I put in a block of backup revolver instruction, so now all of our recruits have the opportunity to train and test to carry a revolver as a backup in the academy rather than having to try to get into a class after. Even though CA sucks with gun laws, the recruits can at least buy a backup revolver where they can't buy most of the pistols we currently authorize until they graduate and are sworn. Yes... it's bonkers.

The last time I personally saw a primary revolver on an LAPD guy was back around 2004-2005. I was working custody and we had to transport an inmate from the jail where I worked to "LCMC"... The Los Angeles County Medical Center - run by the University of Southern California - a very big teaching hospital that had a ton of traumas and gunshot injuries. I've got some stories of going down there over my years working custody.

Anyway, LCMC is distinctive when driving through the downtown area of Los Angeles. It's a big creepy 19 story art deco building starkly removed from the more modern surroundings. Any normal person who had to go to the hospital might get in an elevator and if savvy... would notice that there wasn't a 13th floor. There was one elevator (there might have been a second maintenance elevator right next to the one we used, but I'm fuzzy in my memory) and after you checked in with the ER and got released (could be hours) then you went to this special elevator. There was a person sitting on a little seat... They usually looked a bit creepy themselves. We would walk in and didn't have to say anything. The doors would shut and the person would use a little stick to push the button labled "13". The elevator would go up and when the doors opened there was a room with a window to a control room and a bunch of gun lockers. We would lock up our guns and then bring the inmate into the "jail ward" run by the LASD. Arresting agencies such as LAPD might also have to bring their inmates to LCMC if they required in-patient medical care.

It was on one of these evenings a partner and I brought an inmate up to the 13th floor and as we were locking our guns an older LAPD officer came out (having dropped of his "body". He proceeded to unlock his (what was probably a 4" Model 19 or maybe 28 based on my quick glance and limited revolver experience at the time) revolver and re-holster. I made a comment about being impressed he was still carrying a revolver and we talked for a couple minutes. He had retired but LAPD has a "drop" program where you can retire and continue to work for a lower pay and still get the pension. LAPD gets an experienced cop at a lower rate, and the cop gets to double-dip. It's a cool program. He was on the drop program so he'd been on probably well over 30 years at that point. I'm not sure if even drop guys would be carrying a revolver today.

The "old" LCMC closed several years ago and a new USC Medical Center (We still call it LCMC) was built. I still remember spending hours at LCMC waiting for a determination of whether an inmate would be kept there or that we'd have to transport them somewhere else. This could have been a half hour or fourteen hours. There was a small room with a couch that was so worn that you would sit and sink practically to the floor. There was a TV with a bunch of old VHS videos and we'd watch movies and take turns sleeping at night.

Ahh... memories.