Appropriate programming

[Failure2Stop]

Do I as a trainer take the Mitt Romney approach and say "Well at least half of the people who train won't train with me"? Know what I mean? And should I develop tiered programming for people like that? I can do that and have. I don't really like doing that though and I'm at a point now in my life where there's very little that I do that I don't like doing.

I'm probably the worst guy to give this advice, since my primary income is not based on teaching anymore, but...

I only teach programs that I enjoy to students that I like, with an outcome that is better than (or at least equal to) any other similar program over the same timeline.
If I didn't think that I was putting forth the highest quality instruction, I wouldn't offer the class or take anyone's money for it.

[BaiHu]

*SNIP*
If I didn't think that I was putting forth the highest quality instruction, I wouldn't offer the class or take anyone's money for it.

I think this is why the level 1, 2, 3 classes work for so many. It's not that Todd, Craig, Tom, nyeti, Chuck, etc are holding YOU, the student, back on a level 1 course, rather YOU, the student, aren't ready for level 2 or 3 yet.

People need to know what they don't know. The ego is one of the first things that needs breaking before learning can occur. Only preceded by wax out of the ears and crusties out of the eyes.

[LittleLebowski]

If I had just a couple of hours and a few rounds in which to get someone into barely OK with a handgun I'd likely use a modified Shanghai Police training program.

Hand up if you want Chuck to get on the road and teach.

<raises hand>

[orionz06]

Already forced him to do it.

[BaiHu]

I'm working on him right now, but NJ ball snipped stuff

[JustOneGun]

Todd and I talked about this in more depth on the phone but I thought this would make an interesting thread on it's own as there are minor parallels with ECQC, mainly in sustainment. Also as much as Rob gets bagged on by the internetz, one could very well opine that he actually has a far wider impact on gun owners than we do.

So I wanted to start this and see where it goes.

First there is no perfect program. I think the best a trainer can do is start basic with the idea that if the student never trains again they have the basics to survive. If they are advised of this and given a general set of training goals it then becomes their responsibility for further development. If they continue on and become the best shooter in the world is the basic class you gave them something they could build upon or was it actually a hindrance to the students progress. I think it makes sense to have shooting classes with a general level attached to them. I know that's not perfect but it does give some guidelines for a class not to be useless for the student.

I agree with Tom, to not teach sighted fire is unacceptable. There is quite a myth when it comes to those shootings where sights were not used. Because most shooting data comes from police shootings we have to look at why an officer wouldn't use their sights. There are a lot of theories and few facts here.

Where I worked most people reported using their sights as they were trained to do. Some agencies train the officers to shoot on the way up if they are close and that's been seen on video as happening with the documented misses. I dislike this because most officers have a problem telling distance under stress and start shooting when they are actually too far away for anything but a sighted fire hit.

I also have a sneaking suspicion that many officers shoot their pistols at chin level because that is where they draw their pistols too during training. For years I noticed this. Put a target out there and ask them to practice drawing. Most would draw to center mass of the target. Ask them to practice drawing without that target and they bring it to their chin. I've seen it thousands of times. Can I prove that's why some shoot this way? No. But nothing can be proven here so I think of it as efficient and or best practices. I advocate always drawing to a target whether the target is low ready or center mass but to something that lines up the eyes.

[Chuck Haggard]

Hand up if you want Chuck to get on the road and teach.

<raises hand>

Working on it...............

[cclaxton]

I am out of my lane here, but I want to ask a question:
Isn't the bigger problem that not enough CCW carriers get adequate training and information (let's not forget legal information, when/if to shoot decision-making skills, etc.)? And, that's just CCW guys...I cringe to think about the skill level for people who just own a few handguns for home/vehicle defense.

What can be done to set the expectations higher?
Thanks,

Cody

[dgg9]

What can be done to set the expectations higher?
Thanks,

Cody

IMO, nothing. There are millions of CCW holders in the US, and like every other large population, most will only be casually motivated. How many drivers take advanced driving courses? Maybe the fundamental question is, what's the value add of spending a lot of time training for a super rare event?

[Chuck Haggard]

IMO, nothing. There are millions of CCW holders in the US, and like every other large population, most will only be casually motivated. How many drivers take advanced driving courses? Maybe the fundamental question is, what's the value add of spending a lot of time training for a super rare event?

The flip side, as Tom has noted, is the number of CCWs who do not carry.

What would the value be if they actually carried, and trained to even a modicum of capability? I suspect there would be quite a few more bad guys shot.