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Thread: How to demo advantages of gripping the carbine forearm vs mag well

  1. #11
    The history other guys have shone light on is pretty cool w/ the fixed stock 20" barrel guns. I think of it as a "less than ideal grip" while shooting freestyle or unsupported. Probably don't see it it in competition much but I'd wager plenty of patriots have wacked a bad guy or or 2 hastily holding the the mag well w/ their support hand.

    Maybe I'd try to drive home the point of the mag well being a less than ideal grip by comparing it to the "cup and saucer" pistol grip.

    If they are in the prone or a supported position w/ the rail full of lights and lasers supported on an object than maybe the Magwell Is the only and best option.

    What is the best way to minimize recoil leverage from your working platform with your personal physical attributes?

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by LOKNLOD View Post
    I like the "you don't write with a pencil held by the eraser, do you?" tactic.

    Two variations:

    1.) Classroom version
    Stand in front of a blank cardboard target, sheet of paper, whatever.
    Get a Sharpie.
    Take the cap off, and put it on the opposite end.
    Ask someone to write their name one the target.
    Make them do it only holding it by the cap, at the far end.
    Laugh at poor penmanship.
    Hold it correctly (closer to the tip).
    See improvement.
    (hopefully) observe lightbulb moments.
    Wouldn't work with my penmanship...

    I remember when the Washington Hometown Forum on ARFCOM made a group buy of lowers, and one of the options was having the front of the magwell textured (like an old timey grenade) as a grip. I made some offhand post about Drill Sergeant Daily making me do many, many pushups if he saw me holding my M16 that way. I was derided as being insufficiently enlightened. Glad to see I was right after all...
    Recovering Gun Store Commando. My Blog: The Clue Meter
    “It doesn’t matter what the problem is, the solution is always for us to give the government more money and power, while we eat less meat.”
    Glenn Reynolds

  3. #13
    The magwell hold can become necessary when your arms are too tired to even hold themselves out that far. I've had the stock all the way collapsed and a magwell hold just to get by.

    For straight shooting performance a further out grip works better.

    For negotiating corners, obstacles, using the light, staying squared up, strong and weak side, a little more compressed stance/control layout on the gun is beneficial.

  4. #14
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    There aren't that many reasons and reasons aren't going to make much difference.

    Most people are going to do WHAT THEY WANT TO DO and if anything, they just look for EXCUSES for doing what they want to do. They'll search the internet from one end to the other looking for and expert who recommends what they already want to do and are going to to any way.

    Most people do things with guns for the same "reasons" they do most every thing else.
    1. They think it looks cool.
    2. They saw someone else they think is cool doing it.
    3. They think girls like it.

  5. #15
    Magwell hold still has a place for those stuck using crappy .mil guns that aren't free floated. Pressure on the handguard, whether using a forearm hold or pressure from a barricade, translates to pressure on the barrel and pushes the impact of the bullet. It sucks and I would much rather have my support hand extended. Running M16A2s and M16A4s in .mil competitions for the guard, everyone at the top uses a magwell hold to prevent this impact shift. You might get away with it at 25 yards, but even that is pushing it.

    On free float stuff, I'm definitely not using a magwell hold.

  6. #16
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    SATX
    Quote Originally Posted by CalmlyDeMented View Post
    Magwell hold still has a place for those stuck using crappy .mil guns that aren't free floated. Pressure on the handguard, whether using a forearm hold or pressure from a barricade, translates to pressure on the barrel and pushes the impact of the bullet. It sucks and I would much rather have my support hand extended. Running M16A2s and M16A4s in .mil competitions for the guard, everyone at the top uses a magwell hold to prevent this impact shift. You might get away with it at 25 yards, but even that is pushing it.

    On free float stuff, I'm definitely not using a magwell hold.
    I never noticed this but I only shot human size targets out to 300M. I can say that with my own 16" carbine without FF handguards, it still shoots quite nicely out to 200M but again, I'm not shooting matches so my accuracy requirements may differ from yours.

    I would like to know what type barricade shooting you are referring to and how it is used?

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Redhat View Post
    I never noticed this but I only shot human size targets out to 300M. I can say that with my own 16" carbine without FF handguards, it still shoots quite nicely out to 200M but again, I'm not shooting matches so my accuracy requirements may differ from yours.

    I would like to know what type barricade shooting you are referring to and how it is used?
    Barricades are like a VTAC board that is cut in half so it isn’t as tall. So either shooting over the top or shooting through the ports you want the gun as far forward as possible. Just pretty much wedge it in there with the mag on the board and the delta ring taking most of the pressure. With you leaning into it, it’s like loading a bipod: more stable and controls recoil for follow up shots.

    Yeah, everything has scoring rings in these matches, like the target in my profile pic and some are smaller. You only notice a difference when you are putting significant pressure on the hand guard, which transfers that pressure to the barrel and pushes the bullet impact.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalmlyDeMented View Post
    Barricades are like a VTAC board that is cut in half so it isn’t as tall. So either shooting over the top or shooting through the ports you want the gun as far forward as possible. Just pretty much wedge it in there with the mag on the board and the delta ring taking most of the pressure. With you leaning into it, it’s like loading a bipod: more stable and controls recoil for follow up shots.

    Yeah, everything has scoring rings in these matches, like the target in my profile pic and some are smaller. You only notice a difference when you are putting significant pressure on the hand guard, which transfers that pressure to the barrel and pushes the bullet impact.
    You guys allowed to use slings?

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Redhat View Post
    You guys allowed to use slings?
    You could, but without it being free float, you are adding the same pressure. They are combat matches and with all the movement and positional work, you couldn't have the same amount of pressure from the sling consistent enough to do any good.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalmlyDeMented View Post
    You could, but without it being free float, you are adding the same pressure. They are combat matches and with all the movement and positional work, you couldn't have the same amount of pressure from the sling consistent enough to do any good.
    Don't the Marines shoot with the sling? Wonder if they do anything different?

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