Split times

[BJXDS]

In a mindset and tactics section of the forum, a split times discussion is useless without a discussion of evaluation and assessment speed. From a purely technical shooting standpoint, split times is a tool to evaluate certain aspects of technical shooting. If you are concerned with shooting non-assessed targets as fast as possible, then split times matter. If we are talking any kind of use of lethal force involving humans in the United States, I find it totally useless as a focus after deeply studying and being involved in this stuff for over three decades. The balance of evaluation speed,shot delivery if needed, assessment speed and a continuation of this process as needed based purely on target reaction is a more complex issues where there are likely not going to be hard numbers. I have seen first hand how extremely fast evaluation and assement skills will trump trigger manipulation speed in encounters unrelated to sport shooting priorities.
As far as split times go as a discussion on mechanics....whatever Gabe wrote is what I would be reading.

Or you could train to control yourself, get the front sight on target, and put a few stopping hits on the guy. If you want to find out how relevant/irrelevant splits are, get some force on force training.

This is what it is ALL about.

[LSP552]

I really liked how Robert Vogel addressed this in his recent interview. He said (very close) "Look what really happens. There are a lot of dash cam videos out there these days. What do you usually see? You usually see the officer who just got shot at pulls the gun and shoots as fast as he can. Ideally we should shoot as fast as we can hit the target but when it goes south like that most people shoot as fast as they can. So the question is do you train to shoot as fast you can?"
That is why split times matter

I wouldn't use dash cams for anything other than showing the circumstances of that particular event. Bad training leads to bad performance and the general state of police training shouldn't be used to benchmark a desirable response. Let's take the fact that lots of examples show officers shooting faster than they can assess or control and then work toward changing that.

General thoughts:

Learn to run the gun subconsciously so you can apply your brain for assessing the tactical needs. The better you can shoot, the better your chances. While most use of force shooting requirements are pretty generous, your ability will degrade some under stress. That's why it's important to start at a high level.

There is no substitute for QUALITY force on force training to teach the tactical applications of violence. Good force on force training will also help you stay under control, which really is the key.

If I had to pick the most important skill, I'd prioritize staying under control and maintaining situational awareness above pure shooting.

But I'd also pushing to become the best mechanical shooter I could be.

[OnionsAndDragons]

Ceteris paribus, fast splits are good; but I'm personally most concerned with ability to rapidly present to a small (4" and smaller) target on demand.

Both in the draw to first shot sense, and the transition to the next target.


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[octagon]

A very popular test with members of this forum is the FAST.

The guys who do really good on it are able to shoot blazing fast splits on the 8" circle, and yet are also able to throttle back their speed to get 100% hits on the much more challenging 3x5 card...

The difference with the FAST drill however is that it starts with head shots then has a clear break from small target area to large target area with the reload. This also requires an increase in speed and easier target rather than a decrease in speed and smaller target.

For me I find it a lot easier to speed up and move to a larger target than to slow down once I am firing at a large target fast than the other way around.

[Peally]

The difference with the FAST drill however is that it starts with head shots then has a clear break from small target area to large target area with the reload. This also requires an increase in speed and easier target rather than a decrease in speed and smaller target.

For me I find it a lot easier to speed up and move to a larger target than to slow down once I am firing at a large target fast than the other way around.

Reverse it and use the same par time for funsies

[octagon]

For those talking about assessment time. Is there an agreed or validated time for assessment? I have heard .33ish mentioned but haven't seen the reasoning and detailed hard data behind it or a range since each person has some difference in their reaction time I would assume their assessment time would also differ.

Also when mentioning assessment time are you referring to the time it takes to determine you are hitting, the effect of the hit or the point at which the threat no longer is a threat via incapacitation or dropping a weapon etc?

[Zincwarrior]

I would imagine equipment is also a factor no? Splits with a competition tuned pistol will be different than concealment size pistol or Jframe revolver.

[Dagga Boy]

For those talking about assessment time. Is there an agreed or validated time for assessment? I have heard .33ish mentioned but haven't seen the reasoning and detailed hard data behind it or a range since each person has some difference in their reaction time I would assume their assessment time would also differ.

Also when mentioning assessment time are you referring to the time it takes to determine you are hitting, the effect of the hit or the point at which the threat no longer is a threat via incapacitation or dropping a weapon etc?

Basically.....yes, the whole entire thing. Evaluation and assessment and the reaction to both and then translating hat back into a lethal force decision is horribly complex, and very situationally and individual dependent. Then you get to toss in experience and perception for a wonderful cocktail of chaos. This is why trying to place mechanical numbers and technical processes to it in the "Mindset and Tactics" realm is difficult. Competition forum thread on what kind of split times certain level shooters are running on some specific drill....have the conversation. As applied to use of force, it is really irrelevant.
My take, shoot at your assessment speed with a level of accuracy where you can reliably hit acceptable targets.......which is actually the size of a large orange or grapefruit. To do all of that right tends to be far slower in the field than what we try to do on one dimensional non assessed targets on a range.

[Wayne Dobbs]

You're just ruining this conversation with talk of assessment time and field performance vs gun games, Darryl!

Operational "split times" of 0.30 - 0.35 seconds are on the ragged edge of human perception and decision making capabilities. If you're shooting faster than that IN AN OPERATIONAL SETTING you are shooting faster than you can perceive, decide and act on the information being furnished by your visual inputs during the event. That means you'll fire shots that miss a falling threat, hit retreating threats in the back, fire shots downrange that endanger no-shoot personnel on scene, etc. You can easily turn a legitimate, clean shooting into an excessive force event with your hyper "split times". Street fights ain't match shooting. We should all remember that.

[cheby]

Or you could train to control yourself, get the front sight on target, and put a few stopping hits on the guy. If you want to find out how relevant/irrelevant splits are, get some force on force training.

I will try to forward this advice to Robert Vogel