RO Fatally Shot at NY USPSA Match

[Rmiked]

Thanks for the explanation. Very sad to hear about an accidental shooting. It may be possible to get complacent about handling loaded weapons when these events are so rare (accidental shootings). The competition environment contains fast manipulations. Drop safe seems like a very good thing to not bypass.

[RJ]

Very sad to hear about an accidental shooting. It may be possible to get complacent about handling loaded weapons when these events are so rare (accidental shootings). The competition environment contains fast manipulations. Drop safe seems like a very good thing to not bypass.

100% agree. We, all of us, need to stop with the handbag-swinging at 5 paces, and work to better our on-stage activities. Same with our equipment, of whatever type/brand/maker we use.

I do find it interesting that at least one major trainer I know of specifically will not allow a non-upgraded P320 in his class. Yet USPSA is cool with non-drop fire guns, and has been, since forever, evidently.

Seems like an odd circumstance.

[HCM]

100% agree. We, all of us, need to stop with the handbag-swinging at 5 paces, and work to better our on-stage activities. Same with our equipment, of whatever type/brand/maker we use.

I do find it interesting that at least one major trainer I know of specifically will not allow a non-upgraded P320 in his class. Yet USPSA is cool with non-drop fire guns, and has been, since forever, evidently.

Seems like an odd circumstance.

I think it is just giving you a clear illustration about the differences in mindset between the pure competition people and those who deal in practical application.

The technical aspects overlap but the mindset is different.

[RJ]

I think it is just giving you a clear illustration about the differences in mindset between the pure competition people and those who deal in practical application.

The technical aspects overlap but the mindset is different.

Maybe.

Personally, I'd prefer not to get shot at either activity.

[HCM]

Maybe.

Personally, I'd prefer not to get shot at either activity.

One thinks about “if something happens” the other thinks about mitigation for “when” something happens. e.g. someone is going to drop a gun sooner or later so let’s do what we can to make it less bad.

[RJ]

One thinks about “if something happens” the other thinks about mitigation for “when” something happens. e.g. someone is going to drop a gun sooner or later so let’s do what we can to make it less bad.

Yeah, it’s probably revealing of the level (or lack thereof) of new shooters (like me) coming to competition sports, without existing or innate knowledge of how some firearms work. For example I learned in this thread an AR is apparently not drop safe, if chambered (correct me if I’m wrong, somebody). I also learned there are CZ Shadows, apopular choice, without FPBs, and which could also have extended firing pins. Or series 70 1911s. Now I know, there’s a decent probability a gun might go bang if dropped. Suddenly, the Dairy Queen ticket for a dropped gun doesn’t seem so onerous.

I will say at least at my local USPSA clubs, I’ve seen a bit more shenanigans during stages between ROs and competitors than I’d prefer. They all know each other of course. I’m not saying they’re towel-snapping each other on the butt during the load/make ready, but they could certainly pay more freaking attention to what’s going on. Similarly, the amount of useless loud BS conversations that are gong on just behind the start position doesn’t really help. At a match last year, I was given the L/MR. I looked up, and then pointed at the guy still pasting downrange. The RO had been running his mouth with his buddies and hadn’t noticed. I was like, dude, WTF.

That’s the reason I’ve searched to find the absolute brightest freaking day-glo lime-green shirts to wear at matches. I don’t really want to be hard to see when I’m down range setting steel or what not.

Anyway. Food for thought. I’ll be interested in how USPSA reacts to this tragic death.

[HCM]

Yeah, it’s probably revealing of the level (or lack thereof) of new shooters (like me) coming to competition sports, without existing or innate knowledge of how some firearms work. For example I learned in this thread an AR is apparently not drop safe, if chambered (correct me if I’m wrong, somebody). I also learned there are CZ Shadows, apopular choice, without FPBs, and which could also have extended firing pins. Or series 70 1911s. Now I know, there’s a decent probability a gun might go bang if dropped. Suddenly, the Dairy Queen ticket for a dropped gun doesn’t seem so onerous.

I will say at least at my local USPSA clubs, I’ve seen a bit more shenanigans during stages between ROs and competitors than I’d prefer. They all know each other of course. I’m not saying they’re towel-snapping each other on the butt during the load/make ready, but they could certainly pay more freaking attention to what’s going on. Similarly, the amount of useless loud BS conversations that are gong on just behind the start position doesn’t really help. At a match last year, I was given the L/MR. I looked up, and then pointed at the guy still pasting downrange. The RO had been running his mouth with his buddies and hadn’t noticed. I was like, dude, WTF.

That’s the reason I’ve searched to find the absolute brightest freaking day-glo lime-green shirts to wear at matches. I don’t really want to be hard to see when I’m down range setting steel or what not.

Anyway. Food for thought. I’ll be interested in how USPSA reacts to this tragic death.

Most rifles and shotguns are not drop safe. Firing pin blocks on handguns didn’t really become a thing until the 70s and 80s. This was one of the things that drove the dominance of double action revolver’s in law-enforcement for so long.

[Bergeron]

Thoughtful content.

Well. This.

There's a substantial amount of subtlety that goes into a firearm design. As an example, what does "drop safe" mean? A S70 1911 might not be "drop safe", but only if it has a steel firing pin, a weak firing pin spring, and is dropped directly on the muzzle, on a hard surface. In the case that got this thread going, we have a CZ-parttern, without a firing pin block, in a hammer-down state, hitting a hard surface, muzzle up, on the hammer.

I'm down for changing safety rules as result of real-world outcomes, and I have worked a number of professional jobs with safety rules written quite literally in blood, but I don't see what can realistically be done or changed to USPSA that would be able to address this particular incident. I shoot at local indoor club that hosts weekly matches, with mostly CO or Production shooters, so this more than academic to me.

[Eyesquared]

I’ll be interested in how USPSA reacts to this tragic death.

Given their past track record, I think the organization's reaction will be to not react at all.

[Clusterfrack]

...what can realistically be done or changed to USPSA that would be able to address this particular incident. I shoot at local indoor club that hosts weekly matches, with mostly CO or Production shooters, so this more than academic to me.

Allow Production and CO guns to start with hammer on decock notch. This is what I’ve been doing, unless told otherwise.