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Thread: Organic gelatin Vs Clear Gel

  1. #11
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    @5pins

    My opinion on clear gelatin is similar to sound meter testing.

    I’m not trying to introduce standalone data to compare against measurements done on a different day at different barometric pressure.

    I’m just trying to get an arms length comparative perspective.

    I also like employing an internal control with a known good cartridge shot on that day.

    Basically to me if something doesn’t penetrate 15”+ in clear gel, it’s not optimal.

    Was it border patrol that accepted 10” in porcine gel?

    For me, I’ll shoot a 9mm Gold Dot or HST as my control standard and go from there when evaluating any challengers…

    While clear gel isn’t the gold standard, for me I’m still getting the information I want knowing that I’m not making purchasing decisions for a LEO or military unit.

  2. #12
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5pins View Post
    I made the decision to remove most of my testing I have done using Clear Gel. Clear gel simply doesn’t correlate well with organic ballistics gel, and to leave my postings up would be a disservice to people using my information when picking what round they want to use when protecting themselves. Field loads, handloads, and other oddball stuff will remain.
    I got several warnings on arfcom when I would say how your clear gel testing doesn't correlate to organic gel.


  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by 03RN View Post
    I got several warnings on arfcom when I would say how your clear gel testing doesn't correlate to organic gel.

    From the admins?
    We could isolate Russia totally from the world and maybe they could apply for membership after 2000 years.

  4. #14
    I got a comment on my post, on the Winchester 9mm Hex-Vent, saying he was great to find it tested in Vyse gel because his testing in clear gel was inconsistent.
    We could isolate Russia totally from the world and maybe they could apply for membership after 2000 years.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by 5pins View Post
    Brass Fetcher has some good info. But then he's also done some 20% testing since that's apparently what the military uses.

    Kind of the same with IWBA vs FBI. The 4 layer denim may be a tougher test of a bullet design and engineering but it is not an industry standard.

    Kind of like MLOK vs Keymod. One might work similarly or even better in some cases but it is not an industry norm.

    For better or worse, the FBI spec (at least the heavy clothing barrier and maybe auto glass) are what most ammo is tested to.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

  6. #16
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5pins View Post
    From the admins?
    Yeah

  7. #17
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    Too bad we can't follow the CCP model and just test on condemned prisoners. With the difficulty experienced getting the drugs used for lethal injection it would be a useful and less costly expedient. If Charlie Askins were still alive he would volunteer to dig out the expanded bullets with his Buck 110 folder just like he did with the early Super Vel loads down on the border, so we would have a benchmark to compare to.

    Lacking that I vote for reviving Marty Fackler's goat and pig BBQ like we had at the Presidio in the late 1980s.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Too bad we can't follow the CCP model and just test on condemned prisoners. With the difficulty experienced getting the drugs used for lethal injection it would be a useful and less costly expedient. If Charlie Askins were still alive he would volunteer to dig out the expanded bullets with his Buck 110 folder just like he did with the early Super Vel loads down on the border, so we would have a benchmark to compare to.

    Lacking that I vote for reviving Marty Fackler's goat and pig BBQ like we had at the Presidio in the late 1980s.
    Those weren't French Alpine goats from Strasbourg France were they?

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    ''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein

    Full disclosure per the Pistol-Forum CoC: I am the author of Quantitative Ammunition Selection.

  9. #19
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    I wonder what would happen if they had Clear Ballistic gel that was at the proper density.

    I bought a block of 20% that I was going to melt into 10% to get the appropriate BB penetration.

    But it was more effort than it was worth.

  10. #20
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    Strasbourg tests never happened. What was published was a hoax created in a pot smoke stupor. Thoroughly debunked.

    But goat vs. pig comparisons on instrumented animals on treadmills did occur at Letterman to validate the design parameters and methods used for correct formulation and calibration of Kind & Knox Pharmagel Ordnance 250A. Pathologists from AFIP and Navmed did the PMs. The raw data is probably still classified, but was peer reviewed within the military medical community.

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