Assisting LEO's

[Rex G]

While off-the-clock, out of uniform, I assisted a lone deputy, in handcuffing a group. I do not recall what I said to the deputy as I approached, but having at least one pair of cuffs, clearly visible, and approaching the bad guys, from well off to the deputy’s 10 o’clock, helped visually indicate I was there to intervene on behalf of the “good guy.” (I was not carrying handcuffs on my person, but saw this happening, while driving, so had access to cuffs inside my vehicle.)

This does not mean that I am recommending that an untrained person “go hands.” The act of hand-cuffing, especially a hardened felon, is a perilous act for the untrained. Holding a weapon, while hand-cuffing, is normally a BAD idea. (The best place for one’s handgun, while performing the act of handcuffing, is a Level III holster.)

Another time, I saw a deputy, on a traffic stop, giving commands to a less-than-compliant motorist. I turned at the next street, then U-turned and parked, flanking the motorist, at a very adequate distance, and made a clear series of gestures that the deputy recognized as indicating I was acting to support him, as needed. The motorist became compliant, and my status never went beyond observation.

I did not draw a weapon, in either circumstance. Even if the primary deputies, in each case, knew I was a good guy, in each of the above cases, an arriving back-up deputy/officer might not have recognized me as a good guy.

There were other times I approached co-workers, who knew me, and verbally let them know I there to assist.

None of these incidents, thankfully, have involved gunfighting. Yet.

[LSP552]

Lots of good advice here already. Context and environment will play a big role. I have a former co-worker who found himself on the hood of a moving car and shooting the driver. Trooper ended up bouncing off the highway after killing the driver. A passerby called for help, kept the Trooper from being run over and held another occupant at gun point until help arrived. Clear communication made that go smoothly, and he may have saved the Troopers life.

There is a time and place to help for sure. We have also had several occasions where folks stopped to help a Trooper in a fight. Communication is key.

[SeriousStudent]

Lots of good advice here already. Context and environment will play a big role. I have a former co-worker who found himself on the hood of a moving car and shooting the driver. Trooper ended up bouncing off the highway after killing the driver. A passerby called for help, kept the Trooper from being run over and held another occupant at gun point until help arrived. Clear communication made that go smoothly, and he may have saved the Troopers life.

There is a time and place to help for sure. We have also had several occasions where folks stopped to help a Trooper in a fight. Communication is key.

Holy smokes, thank goodness the Trooper survived that.

[AZgunguy]

I would always identify myself to the on duty officer and ask if he needs assistance. If you get the ok, then help out. One thing I always teach people is that the uniform guy is always in charge of the scene, having spent a lot of time as a plain clothes officer/detective, I would always defer to them on the scene until it was under control.

[El Cid]

I don' have any specific scenarios in mind. I was just seeking input from the members here. One book I read called Strong on Defense, the author was an instructor at an academy, said the best plane is to have a plan before it happens.
Negatives positives plan of action protocols to follow...its all good info, thanks in advance.

I concur. Everything in life works out better when you have pre-planned it. Whether a gunfight, a presentation to grade schoolers, or asking out a date. Obviously we can’t mentally rehearse every possible scenario... a prepared mind and all that.

[LJP]

Greg Ellifritz of Active Response Training has written about this subject, and he does so from the perspective of a cop. I’ve trained with Greg a few times, and I find that he consistently puts out top notch information and well reasoned opinions. There is a Part 2 that he wrote as well.

http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...ening-struggle


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[nwhpfan]

For starters, ask to help. You'll likely get a reply.

I will share 5 times that come to mind. The last of which the person held some guys at "gun point."

I responded to the area where a residential burlgary had just occurred. I spotted the suspect and he took off running. I drove my car to cut him off. The suspect changed directions and ran the other way. Some guy in his truck floored it, cut him off and jumped out of his truck. I had the guy by myself. The guy came running over with a "do you need a hand." I asked him to stand-by as a deterent.

I got in a car pursuit of a stolen vehicle. Guy drove down a driveway, then tried to drive through a cabbage field and got stuck. He ran from his car and I chased him down the road. He jumped into a ravine and dissapeared. Guy in a truck pulls up and asks if I need help. I ask him to stand "here" and keep an eye out.


I was giving SFST's and the person resisted arrest. I was younger and dumber and was taking this guy on when a car screeched to a halt, guy jumped out and ran up to me saying he was here to help, and asked me I wanted help. I told him to stand by (as I was doing allright) but I would have asked him to jump in if I needed.

I responded to call where a guy was working on a house after his day job. He had a fixer-upper. When he arrived he spooked some homeless types, or maybe people looking to steal tweaker stuff. He called 911 and I arrived. When I got there I noticed he had a handgun sticking out of his pocket and he told me he would go and secure it. I told him it was just he and I out here and if something happened to me he would need it.

So, those are the 4 that come to mind. The key for the first 3 is the person came to help if needed, verbally expressed it. Their manner, demeanor, was cautios and helpful. I think that is the key.

The last one was just a few months ago and I sent Gabe the story because I think it's a good one for anyone who carries and gets involved not wearing a uniform.

We had a stolen vehile and had multiple marked cars containing an area. Ligths, siren. This was a urban area. The suspects were trying to get out of the containment area and was spotted by a guy who was setting up some kind of business presentation in a building. He was aware of what was going on; I'm not sure how. So he sees the suspect run across a road and hide again. He runs after them, pulls out his guns and prones them out. So....

The good part was his friend was with him and he had his friend call 911 and gave a descritpion of the "good guy." I would say the last example is how not to help. Stolen car = "low level property crime."

My thoughts on the matter. Ask. Some no brainers - like if a cop was getting beat up, still verbalize your intent. And beware respondig police won't know who the good guys are.

[TCB]

If you want to help out by all means ask. But please don’t split the LEO’s attention from what they’re doing. If I’m dealing with an unfolding situation and am looking for pre assault indicators or just trying to get a bearing on the situation I really don’t want to talk to you at that moment. Standing by in my sight line (please don’t approach from the rear) looking like a citizen, cool, with your hand on a blaster or looking like you are ready to draw down...bad. If I’m getting my ass handed to me and you want to kick the fucker in the nuts...thanks! Tackle someone I’m chasing, awsome! Just be aware that your presence may be a distraction or worst case you may be confused with one of the bad guys buddies.

I had an off duty Officer from our local PD come up from my 8 o’clock once looking to “help” while I was moving in on a loaded vehicle years ago. He was in a business adjacent to where I made the stop. He had a pistol in his hand (and a badge partially covered on his belt), I had a M-4A1 in mine...he came reeeeeealy close to being killed. Please don’t ever put someone in that situation.

[Trooper224]

A couple of occasions when a citizen helped me out:

One night about 1:00am, in southwest Kansas, I'm having fisticuffs in the ditch with two drunks. If they'd been two belligerent and capable individuals with ill intent in their heart, I would have just shot them both. As it was, they were just two extremely intoxicated cowboys I was thumping on until they got tired and gave up. (this was long before Tazers) A passing farmer didn't know that and thought I was in serious trouble. So, he pulls over, jumps out of his truck and yells, "I'm on your side troop!". I was happy to have the help getting Cleetus and Joe Bob cuffed up.

Early one morning, I find myself running, on foot, down the highway alongside a vehicle being driven (at about three miles an hour) by a highly impaired driver. I whipped out my ASP and smashed the driver's side window. That got his attention and he stopped the vehicle. I then yanked him out of the window and threw him on the black top. A truck driver stops to help and I tell him to watch this guy, so I can move the car out from the middle of the highway. The truck driver weighed at least 350 and his idea was to sit on the guy. I thought, "well, that works". I still remember the look of Big Hoss squashing that guy and it makes me smile.

Another time I got help and didn't really want it:

It's foggy. I mean London soup foggy. So foggy you can barely see the fog line on the side of the road. I'm out roadside, putting the big adios on an injured deer. I don't want to get my sidearm dirty, so I pull out my back up, at that time a Ruger SP-101, with magnum loads. As I'm doing my best Mossad impression on Bambi, a passing truck driver sees it happen. Due to the fog, all he sees are my cruisers lights and the massive muzzle flash of my handheld rocket. He was smart enough not to stop, but instead, slowed down and leaned out the window shouting, "I'm callin' for help troop!". By the time I got in touch with dispatch everyone was highly excited.

Then, there's all the times in bad weather when I really appreciated the help. Like, when everything is covered in ice and a thirty mile an hour straight line wind blows the cruiser off the road and into the snow filled ditch. A nearby rancher heard me calling for a tow truck on his scanner, left his house and drove out in his truck with a tow chain to pull me out, in a wrath of God type of weather event.

One has to be very careful though. If you decide to jump in you'd better make your intentions very clearly and loudly known, for your own safety. This applies to off duty cops, especially off duty cops because they're more likely to feel the need to assist. A couple of years ago, I'm standing at the pump gassing up the all terrain family truckster at a local Stop-n-Rob, when I hear sirens approaching. Low and behold, here comes little Ray Ray hot footing it down the street in a stolen Escalade with one of the local constabulary in hot pursuit. I'm standing there off duty, in my loose shirt, shorts and Van's thinking I'm glad to be off duty. However, God has a sense of humor and must have heard my thoughts because the chase takes a turn right into the parking lot, flying right past the pump where I'm standing and up over the far curb at about 65 mile an hour. As the Escalade hits the curb, the front drivers wheel comes flying off and the pursuit is dead right there. The PD unit is occupied by a single officer without any back up then on scene. I briefly think that it's still not my circus, then I decide I might feel bad if the young officer gets the big adios. So, dropping an f-bomb to the big guy in the sky, I draw my gun and move to assist. The last thing I wanted to do was get killed running up in my shorts and Van's, because that might make the young copper feel bad and me worse. Consequently, instead of running directly into the scene, I chose to take a position of cover behind a building about fifteen yards back and left of the scene, where I had a good line of fire. As soon as other LE units arrived on scene, I holstered up and finished my business. I don't think any of the LEOs involved knew I was there and I had no desire to become involved any further.

As an LEO I always had mixed feelings about citizens helping out. While I certainly appreciated the help, I was always concerned about any of the numerous ways things could go badly. The last thing any cop wants is to inadvertently harm a citizen trying to help out. I think we'd all rather die than have that on our conscience.

[MDFA]

Anytime I see another Officer on a stop I run what would I do through my head. I would never leave another Officer without help in any situation. But even with 42 years on the job there are no perfect answers. Be sure of what your doing and that the Officer knows your intent the best you can. And realize that you're on a very slippery slope in a very tense situation.