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Thread: USPSA popper calibration rules suck.

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by caleb View Post
    That happened as well the and only time I ever shot SS Nats as well. Weird, right?
    Strange things happen at Nats, and different outcomes for different people too. One time at Nationals, a steel popper failed to fall. Looking at the popper, you could see the hinge pin had fallen out, of one side, and the popper was jammed into the ground. You would think range failure, right? Nope, popper was calibrated and I got the miss. I KNOW that would not have been the case were my last name Leatham or Jarrett.

  2. #22
    Member olstyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    One time at Nationals, a steel popper failed to fall. Looking at the popper, you could see the hinge pin had fallen out, of one side, and the popper was jammed into the ground. You would think range failure, right? Nope, popper was calibrated and I got the miss.
    How did they justify that when it was visibly not put together properly/broken?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by olstyn View Post
    How did they justify that when it was visibly not put together properly/broken?
    It was John Amidon, who was head of NROI at the time. He told me if I don’t like it, arbitrate it. Didn’t feel like putting up $100.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by olstyn View Post
    On the last stage of a match today, I got screwed by a popper. We were painting after every shooter, so I know without question that the visible hits were mine. All 3 were within the calibration zone, and the popper didn't fall until the third hit. (Not a forward falling popper, so I was most definitely not "shooting it back up," and all the other steel I shot today fell on the first hit, even some hit below the calibration zone, so I'm confident my ammo was not the issue.) Apparently because I kept shooting until it fell, I couldn't call for calibration, and thus couldn't get a reshoot. I think that sucks. Can anybody give me a logical explanation of why this type of thing is not considered to be a range equipment malfunction?

    Arguably, after having been hit by *any* shots, a popper is not in the same state it started in. Given that, I feel like if either the competitor's ammo has been chronoed and found to make 125+ PF (or no chrono is used at the match, and therefore all ammo has to be assumed to make declared PF), it would make the most sense in scenarios like mine today to recalibrate the steel in question and give the competitor a reshoot regardless of the calibration result.

    All that said, I may be missing some important factor, and I'm definitely salty about it, so if somebody's got a good reason for why the rules are the way they are, I'm all ears.
    As dumb as the rule may be, it's still the rule. When you shot it down you gave up your opportunity for a reshoot. That's one of those rules you learn through experience... Having been there before, if you called/saw a good hit you can take the chance... if you slow down and hit it again and it still doesn't go, you should stop shooting it and move on. At a local you can give "the look" to the RO and they should call the stop ... but just remember you can't stop yourself.

  5. #25
    Member olstyn's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't think I'd have gone for the arbitration either; wouldn't arbitration just have gone to him anyway? Seems like once he decided to screw you, you were screwed...

  6. #26
    Member olstyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. No View Post
    As dumb as the rule may be, it's still the rule. When you shot it down you gave up your opportunity for a reshoot. That's one of those rules you learn through experience.
    Yeah, I guess I've just been lucky not to run into this specific scenario in ~6 years of shooting USPSA. Previously it could reasonably have been said that there were low and/or edge hits involved. Not so much this time. Just when you think you're done learning painful/stupid lessons, another one finds its way to you.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by olstyn View Post
    Yeah, I guess I've just been lucky not to run into this specific scenario in ~6 years of shooting USPSA. Previously it could reasonably have been said that there were low and/or edge hits involved. Not so much this time. Just when you think you're done learning painful/stupid lessons, another one finds its way to you.
    You're lucky. I've had it happen in majors before. Happens way more often at locals - often times we just go "yeah it was a good hit" and go on instead of a reshoot since we have so many people out and it's hot as hell.

    I've found that knowing the rule book has really come in handy at several majors. I got a reshoot on a shit stage one time because the RO didn't start me in the correct position ... I've called for an overlay on shots that were "close" and gotten them a bunch. I successfully argued a mike into a D once because I shot a target at an extreme angle. If you overlayed the bullet hole straight on it was nowhere close, but from the angle I shot it, the overlay touched the line all day. That one went to the RM.

    Either way, my rule always has been : "When we're playing for money, we play by the book".

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. No View Post
    You're lucky. I've had it happen in majors before. Happens way more often at locals - often times we just go "yeah it was a good hit" and go on instead of a reshoot since we have so many people out and it's hot as hell.

    I've found that knowing the rule book has really come in handy at several majors. I got a reshoot on a shit stage one time because the RO didn't start me in the correct position ... I've called for an overlay on shots that were "close" and gotten them a bunch. I successfully argued a mike into a D once because I shot a target at an extreme angle. If you overlayed the bullet hole straight on it was nowhere close, but from the angle I shot it, the overlay touched the line all day. That one went to the RM.

    Either way, my rule always has been : "When we're playing for money, we play by the book".
    Some day we’ll have a shooting sport that isn’t run largely by unpaid volunteers who are also competitors.

  9. #29
    Member olstyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caleb View Post
    Some day we’ll have a shooting sport that isn’t run largely by unpaid volunteers who are also competitors.
    Sometimes you are one of the funniest guys on the planet, caleb.

  10. #30
    Member Peally's Avatar
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    I'm just here to agree that the rules are fucked in that department. Had it happen to me, and I'll be pissed again when it happens again.
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

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