See what you need to see training.

[JCN]

I've been paying close attention to the initial grip out of the holster. As mentioned. the grip and the resulting index makes all the difference in achieving the par times. My mount is not completely stable but is as good as I can get it with my current belt and holster. At this point, par times from 7 and 15 are easily met in dry fire and leave space for micro corrections. 3 yards is a different story. I find that I'm often rushing the first shot before I even get a glimpse of the dot. At three yards, it doesn't matter with a decent index but I struggle with the idea that I could be ingraining bad habits. A little live fire will either confirm or dispel the worry.

Hey, sorry. I have a neck injury that is making my right arm numb, so I am trying to rest it and stay off the computer as much as I can. It flares up when I do work so I am trying to save my healing time for absolutely necessary things. So I’ve cut off anything not critical with regard to phones and computers. I can’t even dry fire at this point.

But I did want to address your concern quickly and then go back to resting.

Sight picture is not just using your sights.

It is using your vision.

So if you are drawing quickly and getting your first shot off when you have good vision of the gun, but not necessarily the sights, that is OK and not a bad habit.

If you keep working, you will get the gun up faster and ideally get some a flash of red in the window, but it is not necessary to still be using your vision to get on target.

It is not pure index shooting if you are still using some vision on the gun and on the target. That is not limited to just red dot or irons in a traditional sight picture.

OK, back to resting my arm. I have vacation in a week or two and hopefully can rest up enough to jump back on then.

[JCN]

When I say sight picture I really mean vision picture.

So the SWYNTS includes the whole continuum of vision.

The better your index, the less vision you need.

The more mechanical stability in your draw and grip, the farther your index takes you with regards to hits.

Traditional sight picture using the sights are only necessary at 7 yards and farther for most people with good indexes.

And close up it’s not pure index if you’re using some vision.

I was joking with a friend:



I absolutely have a sight (vision) picture here. I’m 100% confident that I’m on target.

I’m using my eyes to localize my hand position but my index tells me that my hand position has the right angle and orientation.

If that makes sense.

[Risto]

Hey, sorry. I have a neck injury that is making my right arm numb, so I am trying to rest it and stay off the computer as much as I can. It flares up when I do work so I am trying to save my healing time for absolutely necessary things. So I’ve cut off anything not critical with regard to phones and computers. I can’t even dry fire at this point.

But I did want to address your concern quickly and then go back to resting.

Sight picture is not just using your sights.

It is using your vision.

So if you are drawing quickly and getting your first shot off when you have good vision of the gun, but not necessarily the sights, that is OK and not a bad habit.

If you keep working, you will get the gun up faster and ideally get some a flash of red in the window, but it is not necessary to still be using your vision to get on target.

It is not pure index shooting if you are still using some vision on the gun and on the target. That is not limited to just red dot or irons in a traditional sight picture.

OK, back to resting my arm. I have vacation in a week or two and hopefully can rest up enough to jump back on then.

Hope you heal up quickly! I sympathize with your injury status; it seems they accumulate and last longer the older we get

[JCN]

Hope you heal up quickly! I sympathize with your injury status; it seems they accumulate and last longer the older we get

Totally. Physical stuff gets harder and harder, I expect I’ll “retire” into Steel Challenge someday.

I’m inspired by people like @Jamesa pushing 70 and still going at it!

[G19Fan]

Totally. Physical stuff gets harder and harder, I expect I’ll “retire” into Steel Challenge someday.

I’m inspired by people like @Jamesa pushing 70 and still going at it!

Feel better soon!

[Jamesa]

OK, it's been a few weeks since I checked in on this thread. I had to lessen my dry fire schedule as I was developing some pain in my finger joints. Some claim it is old age but nah, can't be true. Anyway, I haven't quit training or shooting. It's taken a few weeks but the progress is noticeable to me and some of my shooting buddies. I figure when those who are trying to beat you on the range every week begin commenting there must be progress happening.

One valley I have been struggling with is to get a good, consistent index from the draw. All the visual input that SWYNTS has created was telling me I was "on target" less than half the time. The improved speed and improved visuals from doing the exercises (thanks @JCN) allowed me time to micro adjust but the time wasted from bad indexing was aggravating to say the least. I've changed holsters, holster mounts, belts, holster cant, etc. My wrist anatomy is such that I need the holster mounted with the muzzle forward. For the last several years I've mounted the holster at about 2:30. That was comfortable so it had to be right?? None of the changes resulted in any index improvement. For no particular reason I decided to move the holster back to 3:00 and voila, that seems to have helped immensely. Duh!

Today I decided to dryfire SWYNTS Phase 2. I did Phase 1 first so was warmed up and did the 3 yard and 7 yard iterations. No 15 yard today as my hands were beginning to hurt. The biggest takeaway was the visual feedback. My shots on the first target were visually acceptable but I was on target much better on the second target. If this had been live fire I would say the groups on target one were 8" and the groups on target two were 3". This was true whether going right to left or vice versa. I'm not sure what that means. I'd appreciate your thoughts @JCN.

[JCS]

OK, it's been a few weeks since I checked in on this thread. I had to lessen my dry fire schedule as I was developing some pain in my finger joints. Some claim it is old age but nah, can't be true. Anyway, I haven't quit training or shooting. It's taken a few weeks but the progress is noticeable to me and some of my shooting buddies. I figure when those who are trying to beat you on the range every week begin commenting there must be progress happening.

One valley I have been struggling with is to get a good, consistent index from the draw. All the visual input that SWYNTS has created was telling me I was "on target" less than half the time. The improved speed and improved visuals from doing the exercises (thanks @JCN) allowed me time to micro adjust but the time wasted from bad indexing was aggravating to say the least. I've changed holsters, holster mounts, belts, holster cant, etc. My wrist anatomy is such that I need the holster mounted with the muzzle forward. For the last several years I've mounted the holster at about 2:30. That was comfortable so it had to be right?? None of the changes resulted in any index improvement. For no particular reason I decided to move the holster back to 3:00 and voila, that seems to have helped immensely. Duh!

Today I decided to dryfire SWYNTS Phase 2. I did Phase 1 first so was warmed up and did the 3 yard and 7 yard iterations. No 15 yard today as my hands were beginning to hurt. The biggest takeaway was the visual feedback. My shots on the first target were visually acceptable but I was on target much better on the second target. If this had been live fire I would say the groups on target one were 8" and the groups on target two were 3". This was true whether going right to left or vice versa. I'm not sure what that means. I'd appreciate your thoughts @JCN.

Not JCN, but being 4 months into the program I’ll just say this. Keep with it. Do it 5x a week and the index will improve. There’s no secret draw or holster position. It’s just thousands of reps building the muscle memory. You’re going to see the best results with not moving holster or gun positioning. Every time you do you are creating a minor set back. Speaking from personal experience. I tweaked my holster and mags frequently trying to find the perfect spot. I just told myself to pick one and not change it for a month. After a month I haven’t desired to change it 3 months later.

[JCN]

If anyone is on the fence about doing this, we can do a relaxed time frame or lower standard version.

Post up, I have some extra mental bandwidth to help in the next couple weeks! Happy to help review and design specific times and mechanics for people who want some help.


@CraigS
@dogcaller

[G19Fan]

If anyone is on the fence about doing this, we can do a relaxed time frame or lower standard version.

Post up, I have some extra mental bandwidth to help in the next couple weeks! Happy to help review and design specific times and mechanics for people who want some help.


@CraigS
@dogcaller

This drill hasbeen great. I am still shooting if from co concealment but close to or hitting par times when focused (with a p365xl macro). 3 yards using 1.2 par time.The biggest benefit of this drill for me is I learned that naturally I index left and had to correct for it/be aware of it. In addition this drill really reinforced master grip for me (role it plays in 2nd shot split and accuracy)

[G19Fan]

This drill has been great. I am still shooting it from concealment but close to or hitting par times when focused (with a p365xl macro). 3 yards using 1.2 par time.The biggest benefit of this drill for me is I learned that naturally I index left and had to correct for it/be aware of it. In addition this drill really reinforced master grip for me (role it plays in 2nd shot split and accuracy)