Another comparison:
Another comparison:
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
It’s got nothing to do with where my optic is because I’m running red dot sights on my rifles. There’s no eye relief issue. It’s about being able to shot squared up without having to blade my upper body. It’s the same reason the defensive shooting community like the Magpul SGA over the OEM stocks which have 14” lengths of pull. Someone large can use a gun with a short LOP or a gun with a long LOP but someone small can’t use the long LOP effectively. If the LOP is too long it forces the shooter to contort their body to fit around the gun, usually resulting in your shooting platform being sacrificed.Originally Posted by spyderco monkey
With body armor, are you retracting the stock to better position the optic distance for your eye?
Because with a bullpup, optic position is independent of length of pull.
The AUG has a 15" LOP, but here the optic is positioned ~7" from the shoulder, shorter than an AR pistol with the brace collapsed; a Liberian Child Soldier wearing a life preserver vest could could reach the optic here despite the long LOP.
*Edit* heres another example.
AUG, 15" LOP, vs AR15 with stock fully collapsed so a much shorter LOP. Yet optic position distance from the shoulder is identical.
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What about the location of the pistol grip causes the shooter to contort their body?
Because 'where the pistol grip is' is the only thing LOP relates to when it comes to a bullpup. The grips location on a bullpup is artificial, in that it could be placed basically anywhere on the rifle without changing any of the rest of the rifles dimension, as the trigger is connected to the FCG via a linkage, rather then being fixed in place like with a conventional rifle.
If you have your AR, you can simulate this effect. Get squared up and comfy behind your AR, stock set to how you like it. Now staying in place, left hand staying on the handguard, sights on target, move your right firing hand off the pistol grip, and onto the magwell, simulating a super long LOP bullpup.
Does your pistol grip hand moving forward a few inches change the rest of your relationship with the rifle, or force you contort your stance?
(You can fully replicate the AUG 15" LOP with the stock all the way collapsed, hand resting on the magwell.)
If you have a bullpup you can simulate the reverse. Get squared up, sights on target, then switch your firing hand to the magazine to simulate a much shorter LOP. Does this improve the ability to be squared up?
The LOP thing is deceptive with Bullpups because bullpups have their weight further back than conventional longarms. I found it much less tiring to shoot courses with Bullpups (Steyr AUG and FS2000) than an AR. So even though a bullpup may have a longer length of pull, it is not nearly as much of a factor as it would be with a conventional longarm.
Here is a picture comparison of 2 AUGS with 16" barrels to an AR SBR with a HK416 10.3" upper. The first AUG is made by the now defunct company Sabre; the second one is a Steyr AUGA2.
That may be my favorite thing about them. They are stupid easy to keep mounted, even one handed despite being overall heavier than an AR.
The answer to these questions depends on the body size of the shooter, especially the arms.
I cannot comfortably square up with my Tavor, even with the thin Manticore buttplate. Fortunately, I strongly prefer shooting partially bladed. With a plate carrier, especially if I want to shoot squared up, the AR is a better choice because I can slide the stock in.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
Small framed shooters and children are a prime example of someone who have issues with the long LOP on a bullpup . Optic distance doesn't matter much if you cant reach the controls, or are even able to shoulder it correctly. If I am wearing armor the AUG is a real stretch for me personally . YMMV.
Thats the issue I'm struggling with here, because its the weapon length and layout, not LOP, that influences the controls distance on the bullpup:
[QUOTE=spyderco monkey;1445678]Thats the issue I'm struggling with here, because its the weapon length and layout, not LOP, that influences the controls distance on the bullpup:
The fire controls are still pushed father forward than a AR and adding heavy clothing or PC makes it awkward for some of us. Measuring from the face of the trigger to the rear of the stock tells us a lot.
There are people whose arms are too short to both reach the pistol grip and shoulder the rifle comfortably. Not a problem for someone like me who is 5’11” with orangutan arms. Not workable for a someone that’s 5’0” tall whose elbow is almost hyper extended just trying to reach the trigger with the rifle butt in their shoulder.Thats the issue I'm struggling with here, because its the weapon length and layout, not LOP, that influences the controls distance on the bullpup:
That’s one of the reasons you see kids and small framed people awkwardly leaning back when when firing a rifle or shotgun that has too long of a l.o.p they’re often trying make room for the stock to fit between their hand and shoulder.
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