FBI agent arrested in shooting

[psalms144.1]

Oh jeez. What was the reasoning for that? Or was it absent any justification, like when they took away your 5.56 carbines?

We get the 16" ASPs and OC. I got a big one (4oz?) and small pocket clip one.....not sure what they're issuing out current day.

The reality was ignorance and laziness on the part of the support folks who make all of the decisions that negatively impact the operational capability of the agent force. We were told that OC was a "chemical weapon under the Hague accords," so we couldn't carry it overseas. Since it's easier to issue one item than two, they just made us turn in all the OC for the wand of doom...

[GJM]

Today's WaPo:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...9ac_story.html


Snippet:

Yet federal law enforcement has remained largely exempt from those kinds of rules. Federal police typically don’t identify members who shoot or kill people. Unlike their local counterparts, they rarely hold news conferences on officer use-of-force incidents or take questions.
That makes it almost impossible for loved ones of those killed in encounters with federal police to understand a person’s last moments and for the public to scrutinize police tactics or the conduct of individual officers.

[blues]

Today's WaPo:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...9ac_story.html


Snippet:

Yet federal law enforcement has remained largely exempt from those kinds of rules. Federal police typically don’t identify members who shoot or kill people. Unlike their local counterparts, they rarely hold news conferences on officer use-of-force incidents or take questions.
That makes it almost impossible for loved ones of those killed in encounters with federal police to understand a person’s last moments and for the public to scrutinize police tactics or the conduct of individual officers.

They forgot to add: 'just when they were turning their lives around.'

[jlw]

They forgot to add: 'just when they were turning their lives around.'

Attempting to turn one's life around is one of the most dangerous activities one may pursue.

[JDD]

Today's WaPo:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...9ac_story.html


Snippet:

Yet federal law enforcement has remained largely exempt from those kinds of rules. Federal police typically don’t identify members who shoot or kill people. Unlike their local counterparts, they rarely hold news conferences on officer use-of-force incidents or take questions.
That makes it almost impossible for loved ones of those killed in encounters with federal police to understand a person’s last moments and for the public to scrutinize police tactics or the conduct of individual officers.

Imagine for a moment, working in an agency that has specifically verboten law enforcement from making recordings of employees for investigative purposes. (A throwback to a darker period in history). Now imagine that policy running headlong into a desire to bodycam up cops.

[DDTSGM]

Someone getting up in your grill isn't necessarily justification to shoot them, however. If a shooter can articulate that he/she believed the person was armed, that changes things. In the context of the current domestic USA, you generally can't just assume a person is armed and shoot them, saying, "Oh, well they could've knifed me if they had a knife...but no, I don't actually have any indication they were armed". That's not kosher.

The proper response for the former is fisticuffs and intermediate force adjuncts. Introduce a weapon, and now you've changed the facts, which changes the answer. For instance, if a LEO for some reason feels compelled to have preemptively drawn their sidearm and then the dude comes after the LEO, that's introducing a weapon, which changes things, as the courts have mostly respected the idea that anyone trying to close with/put hands on you while you have a gun out can be assumed to be attempting to gain control of the weapon. However if the weapon is holstered, you generally can't say, "Well I was afraid he was going to take my gun" and shoot them without some sort of stimulus that they wanted to take the LEOs gun, such as reaching for it, feeling their hands on/around it, verbalization/intent, etc.

LEOs get in fights with people all the time; we can't shoot people simply because they get close to us or the conversation goes to blows.

Note: None of what I'm writing here is speculation about the SSA's incident. I'm just addressing the broader concept on use of force.

Thanks for your response in both posts. You said it well.

[Hot Sauce]

I can see that. I think cops gravitate to the use of force necessary to keep a lid on the crime. Cops here in Seattle, going back a few years, used to be pretty heavy handed with the criminal element. The DOJ investigated.

https://www.npr.org/2012/04/06/15012...-investigation

That's how Seattle ended up with CHOP and 25% of the SPD resigning, including the Chief.

"Seattle does have problems," Stearns says. "Anytime you've got the officers, you know, routinely — 20 percent of the time — violating our constitutional rights, that's a huge problem."

That 20 percent figure comes from the Justice Department. U.S. Attorney Jenny Durkan explained that figure at a news conference in December: "We found in the cases that we reviewed that when officers used force, it was done in an unconstitutional and excessive manner nearly 20 percent of the time."

Incidentally, that Jenny Durkan later became the (current) Mayor of Seattle.

[Coyotesfan97]

They forgot to add: 'just when they were turning their lives around.'

SOC MOB (Standing On Corner Minding Own Business) on the way to Bible study

[blues]

SOC MOB (Standing On Corner Minding Own Business) on the way to Bible study

PTL

(Praise the Lord)

[HCM]

Not sure about the FBI, but they took our OC away from us over a decade ago, replaced by Harry Potter wands, I mean 16" ASPs. Which not a single agent I know carries readily accessible on their person, because they suck at pretty much any application. Mine rides in my backpack, next to my spare cuffs and blow out kit, unless I'm kitting up for a planned operation.

FBI Agents are all sprayed in the Academy and authorized to carry OC but few do. The authorized OC is the same conical mist with exposed trigger activation issued by DOJ agencies since the 1990s. The conical mist has pros and cons but the trigger activation means you are limited on how you can carry the OC and OC ND's are more frequent wiht that style than with normal top button activated cans.

Agents get ASP batons but many get the smallest, the 16" make a wish wand which is useless so they wind up not carrying it.