Best Hard-Use AR15s in 2022?

[HCM]

Truth; I bought my Bushnell HDMR on the recommendation of one of their snipers. He said they were purchasing them off the shelf and taking them in country to use. Sometimes even over the S&B issued.

Worth noting the Ukrainians (US .Mil trained) selected that optic for their domestically produced AR-10 /M110 clone.

The Bushnell Elite optics are legit. As I recall they are made in Japan or at least have Japanese glass.

[SwampDweller]

Since you're still heavily considering LMT and price doesn't seem to be a significant driving factor, is there a reason you haven't considered KAC more?

1. They're not available anywhere
2. I'm ok with LMT's semi-proprietary barrels (I say semi because there are respected smiths that are able to alter regular barrels to work in the MRP), but I'd really rather not have a proprietary bolt and barrel assembly, especially considering I never see KAC bolts in stock anywhere and the price is close to what a spare MRP barrel would. I know KAC bolts are damn near indestructible, but anything manmade can fail. I fly an airplane that is made and maintained by extremely skilled individuals, but I still have contingencies in case it did fail on me. Or if nothing else, some freak accident could happen where the bolt gets lost or ruined. With the LMT or DD, there are many quality and stockpile-able bolts to be easily procured.

[Wake27]

1. They're not available anywhere
2. I'm ok with LMT's semi-proprietary barrels (I say semi because there are respected smiths that are able to alter regular barrels to work in the MRP), but I'd really rather not have a proprietary bolt and barrel assembly, especially considering I never see KAC bolts in stock anywhere and the price is close to what a spare MRP barrel would. I know KAC bolts are damn near indestructible, but anything manmade can fail. I fly an airplane that is made and maintained by extremely skilled individuals, but I still have contingencies in case it did fail on me. Or if nothing else, some freak accident could happen where the bolt gets lost or ruined. With the LMT or DD, there are many quality and stockpile-able bolts to be easily procured.

Uppers can be found without a ton of searching but I forgot you want a matching lower. All fair points.

[SwampDweller]

Uppers can be found without a ton of searching but I forgot you want a matching lower. All fair points.

None of that is to say that the KAC isn't a top quality AR. If this were still 2019 and I was seeing brand new KAC SR15's on brownells in stock for $2500, I'd be mighty tempted to order one anyway.

I really like the M4A1 14.5" carbine gas and 16" midlength, and the rails on both. At that point it's just midlength vs carbine length gas.

[BWT]

Re-reading this and seeing “Best” and not “best quality for the price, etc.”

I’d honestly consider a Geissele Super Duty. It has almost all of the components I’d want and I’d echo the guys here about buying a gun as close to what you want from a factory and with a great reputation for CS.

I recommended other brands in earlier posts (such as BCM for myself - I own three and no issues). But I know the Geissele guns have been very accurate and I haven’t heard much about reliability being a problem and they are generally able to be found.

My thing with KAC and LMT is this - I like to shoot my guns and use them (read Glocks and BCM AR’s), but if a gun is too prized to shoot I don’t shoot it. Like I have an Arsenal SGL21 that’s tripled in value because of Russia and imports and its Russian lineage. That bugged me to go shoot to death on the range - I’m not a collector but my kids might be. So, I saw the FN CHF, chrome lined, forged bolt/trunion PSA AK 103’s come out and I bought one. It was $849 about 10 years after I bought the same gun from KVAR for $749 from Russia.

But this one has a lifetime warranty, it seems just as durable, accurate (potentially more TBH a Russian Saiga hunting rifle barrel versus an FN CHF barrel), etc.

I look at the KAC and LMT (or Hodge) as that Arsenal AK - hard to source and I’d feel funny abusing it.

But as TGS said (dude I laughed so hard) I would identify as an adult child soldier. I’m shooting steel in it and I expect it to work. He can sneer at me from his palatial keyboard shooting quality brass rifle cartridges. I regretted unliking it because I do shoot steel case - I think I’m going to go re-like it. I drive a minivan with kids in it. It is what it is.

Personally, I find that not only acceptable but desirable given that I'm not a third-world conscripted child soldier fighting with poorly stored, old, degraded ammo and a gun lubricated with bananas.

I wouldn’t go one off builds unless you enjoy tinkering. I identify with rob in the vein of I don’t want to be fixing a gun when I’m shooting and actually have the time and my wife’s watching the kids, etc. because if she takes the kids for an afternoon or evening alone so I can enjoy myself it is a sacrifice with their age being so low (1 and 3). I also don’t know any smiths locally I’d trust with these guns.

ETA: I recommend OEM computers for the same reason (working in IT my whole life) as ensuring things are compatible and that it’ll work as expected, etc. isn’t a strong suit of most people. I spend lots of my professional life either making things work together or taking on the risk and doing the due diligence to ensure things will work together. Folks watch people working on computers and it is interesting and seems straightforward, but you have to have the tolerance to problem solve.

[HCM]

Re-reading this and seeing “Best” and not “best quality for the price, etc.”

I’d honestly consider a Geissele Super Duty. It has almost all of the components I’d want and I’d echo the guys here about buying a gun as close to what you want from a factory and with a great reputation for CS.

I recommended other brands in earlier posts (such as BCM for myself - I own three and no issues). But I know the Geissele guns have been very accurate and I haven’t heard much about reliability being a problem and they are generally able to be found.

My thing with KAC and LMT is this - I like to shoot my guns and use them (read Glocks and BCM AR’s), but if a gun is too prized to shoot I don’t shoot it. Like I have an Arsenal SGL21 that’s tripled in value because of Russia and imports and its Russian lineage. That bugged me to go shoot to death on the range - I’m not a collector but my kids might be. So, I saw the FN CHF, chrome lined, forged bolt/trunion PSA AK 103’s come out and I bought one. It was $849 about 10 years after I bought the same gun from KVAR for $749 from Russia.

But this one has a lifetime warranty, it seems just as durable, accurate (potentially more TBH a Russian Saiga hunting rifle barrel versus an FN CHF barrel), etc.

I look at the KAC and LMT (or Hodge) as that Arsenal AK - hard to source and I’d feel funny abusing it.

But as TGS said (dude I laughed so hard) I would identify as an adult child soldier. I’m shooting steel in it and I expect it to work. He can sneer at me from his palatial keyboard shooting quality brass rifle cartridges. I regretted unliking it because I do shoot steel case - I think I’m going to go re-like it. I drive a minivan with kids in it. It is what it is.



I wouldn’t go one off builds unless you enjoy tinkering. I identify with rob in the vein of I don’t want to be fixing a gun when I’m shooting and actually have the time and my wife’s watching the kids, etc. because if she takes the kids for an afternoon or evening alone so I can enjoy myself it is a sacrifice with their age being so low (1 and 3). I also don’t know any smiths locally I’d trust with these guns.

ETA: I recommend OEM computers for the same reason (working in IT my whole life) as ensuring things are compatible and that it’ll work as expected, etc. isn’t a strong suit of most people. I spend lots of my professional life either making things work together or taking on the risk and doing the due diligence to ensure things will work together. Folks watch people working on computers and it is interesting and seems straightforward, but you have to have the tolerance to problem solve.

Geissele started strong but have experienced QC issues with some of their in-house barrels, both accuracy issues and gas port / functional issues. They’ve also had some receiver spec issues. AFAIK most of these have been with institutional users.

This seems to be a “growing pains” issue but Geissele is not the automatic “good to go” they were a few years ago.

I like your computer analogy.

Re: steel - I’ve shot plenty of steel .223 but casual plinking with ammo that’s cheap because it’s underpowered (and this out of spec) is not “hard use” which was the OP question.

[Trukinjp13]

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[HCM]

Just confirmed with a friend that DD gets issued to MARSOC in “several lengths” (I forgot to ask for details - he did mention they have SCAR heavies too) as well as some 416s. As far as the regular Marines, I just checked the armory and we have Colt M4s and FN M16A4s. The HK416 replaced the M249s in our Weapons Companies/ Plts, and there’s still a small amount of Colt M16A2s getting replaced by new FN A4s. We’re still issuing M9s with PMO and a chosen few getting the M18s.

@rcbusmc24

I’d be curious to know if they got complete guns via SOCOM or just upper kits like the recent USMC acquisition of 10” 416 uppers for use on existing M27 lowers in certain applications.

[HCM]

From the Colt manuals I've read and talking to armorers, The M4A1s went to an H2 because of the heavier SOCOM profile barrel. The buffer acts as a dead weight when the bolt enters battery, and with the H1 buffers in full auto they were experiencing bolt bounce from the bolt bouncing off the increased mass/inertia of the barrel assembly.

Bolt bounce is an issue in full auto regardless of barrel profile.

However DOD began phasing out H buffers for H2 in standard M4s about 15 years prior to the M4A1 upgrade program’s switch to SOCOM profile barrels across the board.

[BWT]

Geissele started strong but have experienced QC issues with some of their in-house barrels, both accuracy issues and gas port / functional issues. They’ve also had some receiver spec issues. AFAIK most of these have been with institutional users.

This seems to be a “growing pains” issue but Geissele is not the automatic “good to go” they were a few years ago.

I like your computer analogy.

Re: steel - I’ve shot plenty of steel .223 but casual plinking with ammo that’s cheap because it’s underpowered (and this out of spec) is not “hard use” which was the OP question.

Fair points.

What did you think of TriArc?

Molon posted some of the best groups I’ve ever seen with their Track barrel.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....acy-Evaluation

They seem to have the attention to detail and have endured Garand Thumb (who I consider unbiased) and Milspec Mojo (same) testing very gracefully in their YouTube Channels.

https://youtu.be/YI6dwSTp2v0

https://youtu.be/UaQAkVbPKbI

They may have some institutional adoption, but I think of that as a potential SR15, etc. tier gun.

Anyway, I don’t want to detract from the thread too much.

ETA: I’m considering these as guns where budget is now secondary and we’re looking at OEM high performance AR’s.