RFI: Fixed Blade Knife for Swimming/Water/Workout

[BillSWPA]

It's just part of the branding; the hole in their folders is what got them to be so well known, now they put it on nearly everything because it says "spyderco!". Frankly it affects nothing in the use of the knife.

About the ARK, I have one and it's an excellent little knife. However, it's much more of a cutter than a stabber once you have it in hand (which may work really well for the OP and his use) due to the angle of the point compared to the center of the grip. The sheath I just can't stand; it's too big and the detent/thumb safety is a pain to operate. I understand its purpose (keeping the knife secure while on the neck) but a proper friction fit kydex sheath would have done the job just as well.

I am well aware of the branding. As an intellectual property lawyer, I think they have done a good job of keeping their product design consistent and recognizable. I was just pointing out that not "everything" is purely functional.

Your comments on the sheath are important. I have believed for a long time that the sheath design is more important than the design of the knife itself when evaluating the usefulness of a fixed blade.

[JHC]

Spyderco Ark seems pretty much ideal for your requirement:

The ARK—or “Always Ready Knife™—is a purpose-designed personal-defense knife conceived by U.S. Army combat veteran John Shirley and his friend Sam Owens. While deployed to Afghanistan, Shirley learned that an alarming number of U.S. personnel were falling victim to sexual assault, particularly while showering. Drawing from his knowledge of the Japanese martial arts and with the help of Owens’ skills as a craftsman, they developed the ARK as a lightweight self-defense tool that can literally be carried anywhere.

The heart of the ARK is its deeply curved clip-point blade ground from H-1® steel—a nitrogen-based alloy that is completely immune to rust. The curved edge packs impressive cutting power into the compact blade and the clip-point profile ensures a strong, extremely sharp point. The ARK’s fiberglass-reinforced-nylon (FRN) handle is molded directly onto the tang and features Spyderco’s proven Bi-Directional Texturing™ pattern and an index-finger groove to guarantee a secure grip—even with wet hands.

To ensure universal carry, the ARK includes an injection-molded polymer neck sheath with a breakaway ball chain. Best of all, the ARK and its sheath together weigh only 2.0 ounces (57 grams), so you’ll hardly know it’s there—until you need it.




https://www.knifecenter.com/item/SPF...polymer-sheath

Pretty neat. Do you prefer the serrated or plain edge for general purpose? Do you like one or the other for one or another specialized purpose?

[RevolverRob]

Of course, all that depends on one's natural wrist angle. I think some time ago, you mentioned that the CP gripped blade up was harder to make work for you than in a reverse grip (while it was the opposite for me). If I remember that exchange correctly, the ARK would be even worse for you in a hammer grip.

Yea, reverse grip works better for me. But that's partly because years ago, the way I was taught to throw jabs, makes a CP in forward grip useless for jabs and instead requires an arcing hook motion. Despite being right handed, I usually box in Southpaw stance so hooking with with the right is a weaker move, compared to a left hook or straight. I've just adopted a tendency to shift to orthodox and use my right for power punches, when the blade is in forward grip. Loading up and using a shovel hook or straight-cross works well in orthodox stance + forward grip. The casting punch can work well in forward grip from southpaw stance, since you're basically just rolling the shoulder and flicking the arm forward. Don't roll the hand over to hit with the knuckles and boom, you're just swinging blade right on in.

[spyderco monkey]

I am absolutely a fan of Spyderco, and they are one of 2 knife companies whose products I have repeatedly purchased over the past 2 decades. However, I am having a hard time seeing the function of the hole in a fixed blade knife. It would not even slow me down from buying one, but what is the function?



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The thumb hole is Spyderco's trademark. They actually were the first company to introduce what we now consider to be the 'EDC/Tactical folder,' with the first 1 hand opening pocket knife to also incorporate a pocket clip. This was their 1981 'Worker' model.

In the case of the ARK, the thumb hole itself is stylistic. However the 'hump' that makes room for the thumb hole is absolutely functional, as it provides a thumb rest. The thumb rest hump is one of my favorite aspects of their knives.

[spyderco monkey]

Pretty neat. Do you prefer the serrated or plain edge for general purpose? Do you like one or the other for one or another specialized purpose?

Well the two biggest factors are:

-Will this knife be used around Water?
-Does the user know how to sharpen knives? And if so, how do they sharpen?

If the knife is being used around / under water, then I like serrations. There's something about 'wet' material, especially things like wet rope, that can make Plain Edge(PE) kind of 'slide off' the material as opposed to cutting it. SE, due to the little spikes, tends to grab into even whet materials and help initiate the cutting process, preventing the blade from sliding off wet materials. Obviously PE will cut wet materials, but its a faster and more reliable process with the SE.

When I got my cousin a knife for his entrance into a diving based military, I made sure it was a SE Pacific Salt for that reason.

The other factor is, does this user know how to sharpen knives? If the answer is No, then SE all the way. A SE knife will be able to still cut through materials quickly and aggressively for years in between sharpenings. I got my friend a SE Native when he went off for a 1 year trip to India for that reason. When I caught up to him a few years later, he was still carrying the knife. It was 'dull' by my knife OCD standards, but for him, it was still easily cutting through boxes / cord/ food, and he still though it was quite 'sharp.'

Likewise, I've bumped into other friends and acquanitences carrying PE knives that were just straight up Dull AF- like as dull as a typical $1 kitchen knife. They don't know how to sharpen, but since the knife can still open a amazon box, its still 'sharp'...they would have been much better off with a SE knife.

The last wildcard is the H1 steel used in the ARK. H1 steel is 'work hardening,' which means that the process of grinding the knife actually hardens the edge. The result is that PE H1 knives have a RC hardness of ~57, while the extra work hardening of grinding the Serrations bumps the SE H1 hardness to RC 63-64. So the SE H1 will hold its edge much longer between sharpenings.


Now for the flipside, my personal use.

I don't work around/under water. And I know how to sharpen knives to 'hair popping' levels of sharpness, and I make sure to touch up my knife every few months so they are always sharp.

For me, its PE all day everyday. On dry land, a properly sharpened PE blade with good blade geometry (full flat ground with thin edge) will outperform SE. The PE knife glides more easily through thick cardboard, and slices through thinner cardboard and plastic without tearing or snagging.

More importantly, if you know how to sharpen, a PE blade is much, much easier to sharpen and maintain. 2 minutes on a Lansky V sharpener will return a PE blade to hair shaving sharpness. With SE, you need a Spyderco sharpmaker, and even then the SE will never really quite get back to 'factory fresh' sharpness. For that reason I typically will just use a SE blade for ~ a year then send it back to Spyderco to have it resharpened by the factory for $5.

[BillSWPA]

On the issue of serrations, I have seen a court opinion from Ohio listing serrations as one of many factors used to determine whether a knife is designed for use as a weapon, making it illegal to carry. While I think anyone who understands knives could easily argue the incorrectness of this position, this factor does need to be considered when selecting a knife in certain jurisdictions.

I have often carried knives with serrated or partially serrated edges, but lately find that I prefer plain edges. I do know how to sharpen a knife but cannot claim to be particularly good at it.

[JHC]

Well the two biggest factors are:

-Will this knife be used around Water?
-Does the user know how to sharpen knives? And if so, how do they sharpen?

If the knife is being used around / under water, then I like serrations. There's something about 'wet' material, especially things like wet rope, that can make Plain Edge(PE) kind of 'slide off' the material as opposed to cutting it. SE, due to the little spikes, tends to grab into even whet materials and help initiate the cutting process, preventing the blade from sliding off wet materials. Obviously PE will cut wet materials, but its a faster and more reliable process with the SE.

When I got my cousin a knife for his entrance into a diving based military, I made sure it was a SE Pacific Salt for that reason.

The other factor is, does this user know how to sharpen knives? If the answer is No, then SE all the way. A SE knife will be able to still cut through materials quickly and aggressively for years in between sharpenings. I got my friend a SE Native when he went off for a 1 year trip to India for that reason. When I caught up to him a few years later, he was still carrying the knife. It was 'dull' by my knife OCD standards, but for him, it was still easily cutting through boxes / cord/ food, and he still though it was quite 'sharp.'

Likewise, I've bumped into other friends and acquanitences carrying PE knives that were just straight up Dull AF- like as dull as a typical $1 kitchen knife. They don't know how to sharpen, but since the knife can still open a amazon box, its still 'sharp'...they would have been much better off with a SE knife.

The last wildcard is the H1 steel used in the ARK. H1 steel is 'work hardening,' which means that the process of grinding the knife actually hardens the edge. The result is that PE H1 knives have a RC hardness of ~57, while the extra work hardening of grinding the Serrations bumps the SE H1 hardness to RC 63-64. So the SE H1 will hold its edge much longer between sharpenings.


Now for the flipside, my personal use.

I don't work around/under water. And I know how to sharpen knives to 'hair popping' levels of sharpness, and I make sure to touch up my knife every few months so they are always sharp.

For me, its PE all day everyday. On dry land, a properly sharpened PE blade with good blade geometry (full flat ground with thin edge) will outperform SE. The PE knife glides more easily through thick cardboard, and slices through thinner cardboard and plastic without tearing or snagging.

More importantly, if you know how to sharpen, a PE blade is much, much easier to sharpen and maintain. 2 minutes on a Lansky V sharpener will return a PE blade to hair shaving sharpness. With SE, you need a Spyderco sharpmaker, and even then the SE will never really quite get back to 'factory fresh' sharpness. For that reason I typically will just use a SE blade for ~ a year then send it back to Spyderco to have it resharpened by the factory for $5.

Dayim what a spectacular reply. Thank you!

I have a Spyderco Sharpmaker and that's all I've used for many many years but I've very few SE currently. Just one partially SE Endura presently, and the Spyderco kit gets my PE blades to shave patches into my forearm for almost all of my knives, save an old Cold Steel Recon that must have a saber or chisel! grind. I think I can assume you rate the Lansky V sharpener higher for PE.

This was really interesting and helpful. Did the original designer for the "shower" use case start with SE cause of water and possibly web gear? Serious question although it sounds tongue in cheek.

Thanks again.

[JHC]

The thumb hole is Spyderco's trademark. They actually were the first company to introduce what we now consider to be the 'EDC/Tactical folder,' with the first 1 hand opening pocket knife to also incorporate a pocket clip. This was their 1981 'Worker' model.

In the case of the ARK, the thumb hole itself is stylistic. However the 'hump' that makes room for the thumb hole is absolutely functional, as it provides a thumb rest. The thumb rest hump is one of my favorite aspects of their knives.

I'm thinking of ordering a couple/few of these come Christmas. I really like that grip/handle design as well.

[spyderco monkey]

Dayim what a spectacular reply. Thank you!

I have a Spyderco Sharpmaker and that's all I've used for many many years but I've very few SE currently. Just one partially SE Endura presently, and the Spyderco kit gets my PE blades to shave patches into my forearm for almost all of my knives, save an old Cold Steel Recon that must have a saber or chisel! grind. I think I can assume you rate the Lansky V sharpener higher for PE.

This was really interesting and helpful. Did the original designer for the "shower" use case start with SE cause of water and possibly web gear? Serious question although it sounds tongue in cheek.

Thanks again.

No problem, I'm happy for any chance to get to use my arcane knowledge of the spyderco catalog in conversation ;-)

I think since you have the Sharpmaker, go for the SE model. H1 really shines in SE, and the sort of swept curve of the ARK's blade is a optimal profile for SE, as you can put a lot of the edge into the material at once and really grab onto it with the SE while just pulling the knife towards you; I imagine that thing will be chainsaw on boxes for that reason.

I also like SE for smaller blades in general. The serrations add ~25% more 'cutting edge' then the identical PE blade due to the sharpened curves of the scallops. Combined with the just raw cutting power of serrations, it makes these smaller knives cut more like a big knife. The Spyderco Cricket, for example, is a cutting powerhouse in SE, despite being a money clip sized pocket knife.

From what I can tell the original designers started with PE blades, and then Spyderco offered a SE based on their extensive experience with SE blades (Spyderco was the first to offer a SE folding knife, and invented that style of SE pattern.) Pretty much all of their knives designed for use around water are offered in SE.

This is the initial prototype, which is both PE and has a less sophisticated sheath:
https://spydercollector.wordpress.co...sam-owens-ark/

[BillSWPA]

Dayim what a spectacular reply. Thank you!

I have a Spyderco Sharpmaker and that's all I've used for many many years but I've very few SE currently. Just one partially SE Endura presently, and the Spyderco kit gets my PE blades to shave patches into my forearm for almost all of my knives, save an old Cold Steel Recon that must have a saber or chisel! grind. I think I can assume you rate the Lansky V sharpener higher for PE.

This was really interesting and helpful. Did the original designer for the "shower" use case start with SE cause of water and possibly web gear? Serious question although it sounds tongue in cheek.

Thanks again.

Cold Steel will resharpen the knife for no more than the cost of shipping if I recall correctly.



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