Banning the SERPA

[Slavex]

I've had a lot of discussion with fellow shooters and students at my range about the Serpa holster. For the guys who are just range shooters (99.999% of Canadian shooters fall into this category outside of LEO/MIL) I just don't understand why they want a holster with retention, it is never ever going to be needed. If you're worried about running around in a sport, well, you draw before you move, but if you're really concerned you just tighten the retention screws down. On my new LHS and my old Bladetech DOH I could do all the tactical rolls and jumps and turns and the gun wouldn't come out, it was a bit harder to draw if I tightened it that much, but it worked just fine. Of course I never ran it that way at a match, but it was an interesting thing to demo to people. For the other 0.00001% there are numerous other retention holsters out there that will fit the bill, my favorite is the ALS, if you don't know the thumb release is there, you'll never find it. Unlike the Serpa with the great big "look at me" button on the side.

[Chuck Haggard]

For a field holster I actually like a retention device.

I suppose that in a really flat or open area it might not matter, like hunting in western KS, however anywhere I might have to take a spill I want the gun to stay put even if the butt/grip catches on something. I have been in outdoor situations where I have slide down slopes, etc. where losing the gun from the holster was a real possibility and recovering it would have been nearly impossible.

The ALS is a good choice for such work, especially under a coat, so is a traditional pancake type holster with a thumb break.



Todd; repost as you see fit, however if you give out my cell phone number I will drive to wherever you are at that moment and come after you like a very angry Kato

[HCM]

That POS SERPA is approved for USBP use as well.
I've seen several of them lock down at our 3-gun matches.
So far the guys running them (mostly FLETC instructors) have abandoned them for Safarilands so maybe there'll be some "monkey see, monkey do" coming out of FLETC in the future and fewer SERPAS on duty with USBP in the desert southwest.

Spot on. Why so many Fed LEO's with SERPAs? 1) Most Fed LEO's are not gun people. Most trainees think if they sell it at the FLETC store or "hooah" shop outside the gate it must be good right ? 2) The only thing cheaper than a cop is two cops ......

We wrote a proposal to buy Safariland ALS holsters in 2008 ... and actually started to see them in 2012!

[ToddG]

Todd; repost as you see fit, however if you give out my cell phone number I will drive to wherever you are at that moment and come after you like a very angry Kato

Fine, fine, fine. I'll just give out your Chief's phone number instead and maybe your home address. If that makes you happy, I'm happy.

[jlw]

Todd; repost as you see fit, however if you give out my cell phone number I will drive to wherever you are at that moment and come after you like a very angry Kato

Todd,

You've been warned...

[ToddG]

You've been warned...

That's so wrong.

OK, my fault for the thread drift... back to SERPA discussion please.

[Chuck Haggard]

Well, that was quick.

[Josh Runkle]

$5 gets you $10 that there was a hunk of something, or a build up of somethings under the retention release; enough LINT will do it, snow, silty-sticky Euphrates River mud.... Seen it happen more than once, including one time in particular...

I had a single thin sliver of gravel, about half the size of my pinky-fingernail, hang up the release on mine in 2006. Discovered it was at the worst possible moment; carbine went TU, I needed that pistol NOW, but it was all Excalibur-in-the-stone. Thankfully, I had a fire team for an entourage....

Sounds like you owe someone a punch in the face.

[Chuck Haggard]

I don't get why the lockup issue is still debated.

Nine years ago in Phoenix:

http://www.federaltimes.com/VideoNet...c-SERPA-Lockup

That stripping off of the belt loop or paddle as shown in the video is exactly what I was referring to. I have seen this happen in weapon retention training, and I have seen if just from a big dude sitting down in a chair and catching the butt of the pistol on the slats of the chair.

[Don Gwinn]

On my new LHS and my old Bladetech DOH I could do all the tactical rolls and jumps and turns and the gun wouldn't come out, it was a bit harder to draw if I tightened it that much, but it worked just fine. Of course I never ran it that way at a match, but it was an interesting thing to demo to people.

You don't know what you don't know until you know . . . you know? You *taught* those people who watched you demo how the retention worked. But not everybody gets taught.

I remember going to that Blackwater/Para/Blackhawk event Tamara was talking about. I had never carried a handgun in a holster except a couple of days with a P220 snapped into a Galco IWB a friend gave me, seven years prior, and running one USPSA match (one stage, really) with a FOBUS paddle holster I'd purchased for the same gun on a whim. The FOBUS seemed like the wave of the future, but I was extremely self-conscious wearing it, and simultaneously annoyed at how hard it could be to draw from it (that thing would yank my belt a few inches higher before it gave up that SIG) and nervous that a loaded handgun was just sitting there where anything could happen to it.

As I put the Para in that plain CQC with one retention screw today, it feels surprisingly firm and solid. Surprising because, back then, when they showed us both holsters, it felt loose compared to the FOBUS and the idea of a mechanical retention device that seemed completely transparent, requiring no change to the draw, seemed like magic. Obviously the holster hasn't tightened up any; it's only my perception that has changed over the last six years.

You can't start out knowing how much you don't know.