Rich, have you ever thought about a Glock 19? They are really great carry guns. Really hard to beat.
Rich, have you ever thought about a Glock 19? They are really great carry guns. Really hard to beat.
Add a gadget and ur good to goOriginally Posted by Dave Williams
Yes sir, and it is pretty obvious that a G19-sized gun is - no kidding - a G19.
15+1, lightweight, accurate, reliable (BTF notwithstanding), disassembly to spring and pin level with a can opener, spare parts available at 7-11, $20 magazines, and accessories out the Wazoo.
And of course now you could fit an SCD and be able to thumb while holstering. What's not to like.
Um, so, yeah, I've thought about it. My abiding recollection from shooting a couple examples extensively in 2014 as well as a few (G17, G22) since, was the weird (for me) grip angle, kinda blocky grip, and trigger press not unlike a staple gun. Maybe it was my size M hands, or maybe being a lefty. Not sure.
But do they work for CCW? Hell yeah.
So against that potential purchase ($400-$500, plus stuff) to get a G19, is my pretty well broken in VP9 (3,000+ rounds) that I like, shoot well, and (now) looks like I can conceal carry. Oh and compete with in USPSA. All I need add is ammo and to do the work. I like the ergos, it is reliable, accurate, and I have all the accessories I need for it.
Would I have chosen a G19 as a first gun if I knew then what I know now? Maybe. I dunno.
I'm not really a 'collector', nor am I good enough to shoot a bunch a different guns to a high level, nor am I blessed with disposable cash to purchase several different guns (and I don't have a way to store them, anyway.)
Bottom line, I'll most likely be sticking with my VP9 for a while.
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Why didn't you just shoot your VP9 at the class?
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Rich what happened in the class that changed your mind about the current carry capacity of your p30sk?
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"Shooting is 90% mental. The rest is in your head." -Nils
I wanted to shoot my 'Carry Gun'.
Taking Tom's class meant that I could evaluate my supposedly 'daily' carry, as I am, when I walk into WalMart. It was very enlightening.
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Well, "for me", principally, mag capacity drove reloads. When I'm reloading, I'm not shooting.
Which means I'm losing...time.
Bigger magazine, means less reloading, which means more time, giving me options.
A secondary reason was the reloads themselves.
With the P30SK, I experienced:
- Mags which did not self eject and
- Mags which did not drop free, even while being shaken vigorously.
I had, what is it they call it, a learning moment.
Hence, VP9.
And as @GJM pointed out, some time ago, "I can carry the VP9".I just didn't figure it out until I tried AOWB with the P30SK and the MR Upper Limit holster (also suggested by @GJM).
My JM CK IWB 1 works very well with the Melody Lauer holster hack (Dr. Scholl's women's gel pad) for the VP9. For some reason, my inguinal crease is pretty pronounced, and a holster fits neatly into that hollow very well.
(Perhaps this is an option for those of us who are not exactly rail thin?)
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Here is the deal. Darryl has articulated many fine reasons to carry an HK LEM pistol. I believe I have heard you articulate why those reasons are important to you. If your carefully review those reasons, none of them include shooting to your max potential on timed drills. You further handicapped yourself by selecting a compact/sub compact sized pistol with a short sight radius and a difficult to reload, short grip. Combine LEM trigger, hard to reload, and short sight radius, and you have stacked the cards against yourself for performance on a timer. Whether any of that matters on the street is a subject for another day. Of course, I suspect you know all of that because we have discussed it ad nauseam over the years.
Glad you had a great experience w Tom!
For some people, working the LEM is tough under stress. Especially if you don't have much DA time and are fairly new to the LEM.
I agree w what GJM said above, and urge you to get more reps in before fully deciding.
That said, in your situation and with your level head I don't think you will be making a bad decision if you end up with the VP9 for everything.
If you do, hit me up when you get close to home, Rich. I have a VP9 that I've never warmed to and could do for a P30SK for Darryl reasons.
But give it your usual level of thorough consideration man.
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Rich is spot on with the quote above. I got a lot more than I bargained for when I signed up for this class. I've been to a couple of 'self defense with pistol' type classes previously, but was overdue for a 'tune-up'. I was thinking this class would be a good 'tune-up'. I carry routinely, and am a decent shot w.r.t. accuracy (not excellent or even very good, but decent). I understand evil exists, and am familiar with when you should or should not shoot somebody. So all this time I've been carrying was I properly prepared to confront a bad guy? No. No I wasn't. Pretty sobering to think about.
Being a decent shot, knowing bad people are out there, carrying a gun, and knowing use of force rules are necessary, but as I learned in class not sufficient. You also need:
A rock solid plan of action, that you actually practice
An efficient and reliable draw (which requires practice)
Be able to move safely and incorporate proper movement into your response (which requires practice)
Be able to shoot quickly and accurately at the right real estate under extreme stress (which requires practice)
Know when to reload and how to reload efficiently (which requires practice)
Have the right malfunction drill hard wired into your brain (which requires practice)
Deliver solid hits one hand and weak hand only (which requires practice)
Tom clearly explained the necessity of all of the above, taught us how to do it, and how to practice it. For that I am very grateful.
Other notes from the class:
When Tom was not horrifying us or stressing us out, he was very amusing.
There was some excellent shooters in the class who were fun to watch and frankly inspiring.
To repeat what Rich said: I believe if you are at all serious about learning to carry a gun, this is the course you need to take.
Last edited by Soggy; 07-01-2017 at 12:10 PM.
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