Partially extracted with next round abutting the failure round.Originally Posted by TCinVA
Partially extracted with next round abutting the failure round.
Interesting.
3/15/2016
Guess I've been lucky; still on the originals in all my HK pistols, and my training gun is approaching 14K rounds. Oh, I'm not dismissing the issue; too many folks have had them break to chalk it up to user error (and how would you abuse one of those anyway???).
But I also remember when a whole bunch of folks were having last-round-in-the-magazine-failure-to-feeds in their USP Compact .45s, and blamed it on the magazine springs. I never did see any of that, in two pistols; in fact, I ran two magazines as training mags for ten years before giving them new springs. The originals were almost an inch shorter than the new ones; but they still worked. Strange…
All I know is, every malfunction (and I can count them on my fingers) I've ever had in almost a dozen HK pistols, over eleven years of shooting them, has been directly attributable to me; or my ammo, since I tried once to see how just how low I could go on the powder charge in .45ACP before the gun began choking.
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I'm a firm believer that end-user neglect coupled by poor grip is the culprit with our issues. My point was that the SIG P226/P229 seemed more forgiving of this neglect and poor grip. The grip issues really materialize when the users are stressed when SOM and other practical CoF's.
Yes. Sounds like what we called a Phase 2 malf, or double feed; and in our Sigs (P226s, P228s, P220s) it was always either limp grip, not enough/no lube (or a combination of both of these), or a defective/under-powered cartridge.
And something else… I've read a lot about the so-called "energy absorption properties" of polymer frames, and how that can induce malfunctions. Well, after a whole bunch of time observing Sigs and Glocks on the line, IMO the Glock is actually MORE tolerant of poor form/grip than the Sig; and its damn sure more tolerant of inadequate lubrication.
You know, there are so many variables involved here, we could "what if?" it to death and still not be 100% certain of the cause.
Sure makes for interesting discussion, though…
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Oh, no doubt about it; and you made that clear up front. I wasn't taking you to task, by any means. I just found it odd that the Sigs seemed better in that regard for you. Not doubting you in the slightest; just curious.
At any rate, I feel for you. Trying to make hickory-headed cops do something they'd rather not do (or don't understand because they don't give a shit) is a daunting task; trust me, I fought those battles for years.
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Great thread.
#RESIST
Oh, I knew what you meant. Just adding credence to your statements.
Last edited by gtmtnbiker98; 08-16-2015 at 08:50 PM.
Terminology gets sort of tricky on this, I'd imagine.
If the extractor is on the case rim and is pulling it to the rear, but the slide runs out of oomph before the case hits the ejector or fails to hit it with the required force, that's not really a failure to extract in my mind. I can see how lubrication and grip would play into that scenario.
If the slide was moving to the rear leaving the case in the chamber where another round could be slammed into the back of it, then as I see it there are a few possible causes:
- Improper extractor tension
- Broken extractor
- Debris/crud buildup preventing the extractor from achieving proper purchase on the rim of the case
- Debris or some defect in the chamber that's holding the brass enough that the extractor is pulling off of the rim as the slide moves back
- Out of spec/defective ammunition
Lubrication wouldn't really fix any of those.
Because these machines are in human hands I think we're doomed to dealing with confounded variables, but this still doesn't seem normal. And given that we're talking about a relatively small number of guns/ammunition manufacturing defects with either the weapons or the ammo being used are strong possibilities.
Last edited by TCinVA; 08-16-2015 at 09:00 PM.
3/15/2016
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