Originally Posted by JRB
I remember them too, and don't miss them a bit.
I remember them too, and don't miss them a bit.
It interesting you mention 2/3 of its compression range. If you compress it more /too far does that have negative effects on the spring?
I’ve noticed with both AR and 1911 mags having additional room in the mag box helps reliability.
This would also help explain why HK usually doesn’t “max out” capacity in favor of reliability i.e. putting 15 rounds in P30/VP9 mags the same size as others 17 rounders.
Or maybe LAV just knows his audience? METT-TC and all that.
Having trained with and for a while worked for members of his old unit they generally fall into the 30 camp.
They also came from a place where you could basically throw you mags away and use new ones every mission if you want or need to. It’s like EoTech battery life. If you install fresh batteries every night EoTechs don’t have a battery life problem.
If you put those same guys in a place where new /disposable mags are not a thing I would not be shocked to see them A) loading 28, or B) buying /APO ordering Gen 3 PMAGs because it’s 2019 and Vietnam is over.
Last edited by HCM; 09-22-2019 at 02:28 PM.
You got it.
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Yep. Lube. Sure was. Noob was arguing for dry lubes IIRC.
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
Does it though? Are G17 mags famous for being anything other than inexpensive and reliable?
Depends on the spring and how you use the space. I can tell you from personal experience Glock mag springs do wear out. HK mags will still be working when the cockroach people arise from the ashes of our civilization.
The late Pat Rogers also taught loading AR mags with 28 rounds for the reasons already mentioned. There are times when you are seating a mag with the bolt closed other than a tactical reload--like the whenever you seat a mag in an empty gun that has its bolt forward.
I can see various organizations requiring loading 30 rounds for the bean counter type reasons explained in the thread.
Did you ever notice that shooters like to get all excited about obscure things and then argue about the obscure things over the net or in the tavern? What to use for lube, how do you load your magazines, and how do you chamber a round seem to be particularly popular topics to obsess and argue over.
It really isn't that complicated.
If you have GI aluminum 30 magazines, you might wish to consider downloading them to 28 to make it easier to do an in battery reload.
With Magpul magazines you don't have to do that.
I'm not sure about Tango Down magazines. I don't think you have to download them either.
Label your magazines. If they begin to malfunction, you might be able to fix them with a new mag spring and if not you should relegate them to training use or toss them, depending. If the feed lips are slightly bent and not totally crushed you can often teak them back to function with a long nosed pliers. If the back seem looks like it's splitting, toss them away.
I bought my first AR (a Colt SP-1) in 1977. Back then you could get all sorts of 20 and 30 round magazines cheap at gun shows. I have a big plastic box full of all the magazines I bought 40 years ago, made by Colt and Adventure Line and Okay Industries and Armalite. (and maybe somebody else too I'm not sure) Most of them have never been used that much -- about 30 years ago I made it a spring project to test fire all the old mags in the inventory and to toss those few that didn't work. Many of the 30 round mags were restored to function with new magazine springs. I feel okay about using these mags for training but I wouldn't use them for real.
All my service magazines now are Magpul or Tango Down or D&H Industries GI magazines (D&H and BCM and Vortex are all local vendors). I download the GI mags by two rounds and the Magpul magazines I load up fully and it seems to work fine. (I'm pretty sure that the BCM marked magazines are made by D&H. Those work good too)
A dozen years or so ago I took a bunch of late model GI magazines (I think all NHMTG but I'm not sure) and put the extra power "red springs" from Specialized Armament in them. And Magpul no tilt followers. They will only hold 28 rounds. I used those magazines in rifle classes with Pat Rogers (RIP) and Louis Awerbuck (RIP) and they ran perfectly.
I carry Glocks on duty and off now and I load the mags fully but choose not to do a +1.
(I've seen a bunch of Bushmaster marked mags split on the back seam, and I've also seen a few DPMS labeled magazines split there too. I saw some GI mags split like that when I was in the service too, but god knows how old they were.)
This might be a good time to stock up on magazines and repair components for your primary weapons systems.
Last edited by Jeff22; 09-23-2019 at 02:42 AM.
I remember being in a Oat McNamara class and was shocked to hear him recommend the EoTech, but then he literally said something to the effect of “you just have to keep fresh batteries in it” and it occurred to me that in his former job it may not even have been him doing the battery changing (or the spring-lengthening) at all, and even If it was that it wasn’t a luxury that a regular GI, or a cop, or even a non-LE civilian would have.
I was already pretty disenchanted with the FAG influence on the training market as well as my own training, but that was one of the straws that broke the camel’s back for me. Spent another year as a class coordinator and it pretty much ruined all but one or two of them, and pretty much all future versions since I won’t be meeting/vetting them in person anymore.
So in short, I could give less than half a shit about what any “former xyz...” does or says about 28 rounds. I’ve shot enough, taught enough others, and supervised or observed enough others to make up my own fucking mind about it as well as not having to rely on “well jimmy badass #3 says...” to make my argument.
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