Car Shopping

[orionz06]

That only covers hard parts & components. Dealers void warranties following software changes under the latter half of that statement, essentially implying that any software changes will cause subsequent component failure - and it will if you're an idiot about tuning an engine or trans shift strategy, etc.

Many makers (spearheaded by GM and John Deere IIRC) are pushing that notion further under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, saying that software changes to the PCM/ECU is an illegal editing/alteration of a copyrighted work, implying that you don't actually *own* the software that runs your car's PCM you only 'own' the 'use' of the software so long as you 'own' the car.

Again, it ultimately depends on your service advisor. Some are absolute jerks about *any* changes, others are very reasonable.

VW, Audi, and BMW have third party software companies they work with and many dealers will sell the tune as part of the vehicle sale.

[orionz06]

OP what's the budget here? My first thought given your list was a Kia Stinger. It's a great driver's car and has enough utility to be a daily driver. If money is no object then an m3 or m5. A less mainstream but still viable option is the Chevy SS. It's a rebadged Holden Commodore and a great car with an ls3 in it.

There is no budget, at least for this exercise. I'd like to open my eyes to options other than the 3 Series or the Golf R/S3 that I'm stuck on. The Chevy SS was dead I thought.

The M3 is something I just found out has some quirks I'm not a fan of, plus the N54/N55/B58 engines just sound sooooo mean with an exhaust.

Things like the Charger and Stinger would've been missed otherwise so I'll check them out, just like the Si below.

Where you presently drive a FWD car... at least test drive a Honda Civic Si Model... 2 or 4 doors, 6 speed stick, $25k, and fun as hell to drive. Or for about about $10k more, the Type R is insanely capable little car with 300hp.

How hard are the Type R's to find?

[JRB]

VW, Audi, and BMW have third party software companies they work with and many dealers will sell the tune as part of the vehicle sale.

Yes, but the 'approved' warranty-covered tunes are significantly more expensive and do not provide as much additional power or benefit vs 3rd party tuning options.
But if you're dead set on keeping things happy with the warranty (an excellent idea on modern German cars) then it's a sound trade-off.

On that note, when I was the shop foreman of the regional APR dealer/installer in NM, I became *very* impressed with the fitment and quality of APR parts, and specifically, their tuning packages were 100% spot on even at our elevation which was very impressive. Most canned tuning options need a few tweaks here and there at 7000ft density altitude as we regularly see in ABQ.
We did quite a few GTI's at APR Stage II and APR Stage III and the result is a very impressive car.


Type R's are hit and miss to find. Some are sitting on Honda dealer lots with $5-10k+ 'Market Value Adjustments' which is why they're sitting on the lots. Honda is weird about dealer allocations of performance models so you're likely going to be stuck with the color/interior color option on hand, if you do find one that isn't priced stupidly.

They are kick ass cars though - but as fun as they are to drive I can't personally get past the 'cybernetic gillette power razor with wheels' styling.

[JTQ]

How hard are the Type R's to find?

My bet is they are easier to find than the Golf's above the GTI. In my area I've seen more Civic Type R's (admittedly not many), than even GTI's (practically none) in local new car show rooms. I do see quite a few GTI's and above on the streets, but since this is a Navy town, most are wearing California or other out of state plates.

[Robinson]

Going back to riceburners may irritate you; it did me, and while I like my outback it will probably get traded for a German car within a year.

May I ask what the source of the irritation is? We're starting to research what vehicle we want to replace an aging E Class with and have been considering some Japanese makes. One factor is I am tired of the maintenance costs associated with the Mercedes, though I quite like the car itself.

[JRB]

May I ask what the source of the irritation is? We're starting to research what vehicle we want to replace an aging E Class with and have been considering some Japanese makes. One factor is I am tired of the maintenance costs associated with the Mercedes, though I quite like the car itself.

Looking for high performance in a Japanese car is difficult these days. The current German and domestic performance offerings are significantly better IMHO. The WRX STi, Civic Type R, and Nissan 370Z are the only real options anymore, and they are profoundly outclassed by German and domestic offerings at similar price points.

For commuter vehicles, non-diesel trucks, and luxury cars though - Japanese makes have some wonderful options.
I would emphatically recommend Lexus if you're interested in a trouble-free luxury car with an excellent dealership experience.

[orionz06]

One factor is I am tired of the maintenance costs associated with the Mercedes, though I quite like the car itself.

What costs?

I'm always baffled by this as comparing various vehicles that I'd be interested in or what my wife was looking at I never found anything that was too terribly different from make to make, at least among like vehicles.

[Robinson]

What costs?

I'm always baffled by this as comparing various vehicles that I'd be interested in or what my wife was looking at I never found anything that was too terribly different from make to make, at least among like vehicles.

Anything that needs to be repaired once the vehicle is out of warranty. I was just quoted $800 to replace a mirror on my wife's ML. And of course if you use the dealership for normal maintenance (and I'm not saying people should or shouldn't) it means you won't get out of there for under $225 or so for basic service.

[JAD]

May I ask what the source of the irritation is? We're starting to research what vehicle we want to replace an aging E Class with and have been considering some Japanese makes. One factor is I am tired of the maintenance costs associated with the Mercedes, though I quite like the car itself.

OMFG ur hosed. The E class is one of the nicest cars made; it grossly exceeds the curve for how good MBs are in general. It's not necessarily fun but it's /slick/ and built like a tank. I would enthusiastically replace that with a CPO E and drive on, under warranty.

I've always wondered why the service records for Es are so much better than the rest of Mercedes'; I supposed that it's the fact that it's their fleet car, and they get a lot of practice.

In more direct answer to your question, there is something about European (by which I mean Teutonic and Scandanavian, and not mediterranean) cars that is distinctly different from Japanese cars -- the way they're fitted, appointed, and designed; the materials used; the way they drive. It's a Dieu sait quoi and a Gestalt and a whole bunch of other foreign words. I drive a lot of nice high end Japanese cars as rentals, and they're nice... but I'd rather have a German car.

[Robinson]

OMFG ur hosed. The E class is one of the nicest cars made; it grossly exceeds the curve for how good MBs are in general. It's not necessarily fun but it's /slick/ and built like a tank. I would enthusiastically replace that with a CPO E and drive on, under warranty.

I've always wondered why the service records for Es are so much better than the rest of Mercedes'; I supposed that it's the fact that it's their fleet car, and they get a lot of practice.

In more direct answer to your question, there is something about European (by which I mean Teutonic and Scandanavian, and not mediterranean) cars that is distinctly different from Japanese cars -- the way they're fitted, appointed, and designed; the materials used; the way they drive. It's a Dieu sait quoi and a Gestalt and a whole bunch of other foreign words. I drive a lot of nice high end Japanese cars as rentals, and they're nice... but I'd rather have a German car.

LOL. Yeah my 2007 E350 sport is nice, and it's a rare special edition. It actually handles quite nicely for a car its size. Weird they stopped offering the E class with their solid 3.5L V6 and only offer the 4-banger now (unless you step up to the AMG model).

Oops just went and looked -- in 2018 they introduced the E400 with a turbo 6.