The Implications for SIG SAUER

[JHC]

As far as predictions go:

I don't think the drop fire fiasco will change the MHS selection or rollout - assuming the mil guns are already upgraded and the upgrade does the trick of course.

They'll lose or settle with the CT LEO. Prolly smart to settle. I think they'll lose if they don't.

The 320 in the commercial market will live on but I think it will long suffer from this episode, upgraded or not. They'll sell a lot of them. Competitors will win with them.

But while I thought it might be on track to be the "foretold" "Glock killer" I don't know if it's star will rise that far. A huge number of the 300-500K guns on the market will probably never make it in for upgrade. So that is going to cast a pall over the fleet. There will be some drop fire incidents in the future, scraping the scabs off anew.

Glock may have had somewhat similar stumbles early on but it didn't have nearly the internet, youtube and social media "institutional" memory to contend with that long ago. I mention that because I've seen comparisons on FB that seem to argue that the 320 can become the monolithic gun even after this unfortunate series of event, like Glock did after theirs. I don't know if changeable frames is quite that strong.

[GardoneVT]

Playing Devils Advocate for a moment; Sig probably wouldn't exist today if Cohen wasn't in charge. While it may be morally and philosophically better had Sig gone chapter 7 ten years ago and ended with the legacy P229 as their final product, their shareholders and employees probably wouldn't agree.

The gun business is all about selling flashy toys to people with a metric shitpile of guns already. The stats show the average gun owner in America has seven weapons already and rarely shoots any of them- and we all know somebody with the metaphorical "aresenal" in the safe. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it makes a business case to drive a large firm like Sig Sauer somewhat precarious.Guns are very durable goods; I can walk into a gun shop and buy a used USP that'll do everything a new Legion P229 can for literally half the cost. I can buy a used Colt 1911 that might actually work *better* then a brand new equivalent. That's a problem for a gun company that only earns revenue on new sales.

So from the CEO chair of a company like Sig , they don't want people to actually *use* their guns. They want folks to buy a Diamond Plate P229, then the Scorpion P229, then trade that and buy a new Legion P229, and so on and so forth. Each conversion represents a customer buying a new iteration of what's basically the same gun, like trading in a Mustang GT for a new Mustang GT every year because the colors are different. Actually investing money into per-unit quality becomes a liability ; why spend money on long term quality if your customers won't even keep the pistols very long? The guy and gal buying them for long term use aren't Sigs bread and butter; it's the guy who has 500 different guns in his safe who runs out and buys a new one as soon as the slide roll marks change.

Thats the strategic reason why Sig probably won't announce a recall ever; they don't want high turnover customers who already own a pile of Sig products questioning a $1,500 bill for a Legion with crooked sights . It's similar to when BMW fucked up the crankshafts on $80,000 M sports cars. They buried the problem until a class action suit forced them to fix the cars.

[modrecoil]

I had a friend (we're not in good terms anymore) that wanted to buy a gun, suggested them a P320 for their first to which they bought. Since they have two kids and the fact that I'm partially responsible for influencing their purchase on a P320, I feel it's my responsibility to call them up and warn them of this as they are not really into guns. Dangit.

#shouldhavegotap250

I reached out to a half-dozen friends and/or former students that may have bought a P320 on my advice. Feel like a schmuck lecturing new shooters on how drop-safe "modern" handguns are with a P320 in my holster.

[Stephanie B]

Contrast all this with how Ruger handles recalls.

I have a .40 cop-trade-in Sig P226 that I bought on a cop-turn-in special. Since .40 seemed to be more-or-less available during the recent ammo-panics, I bought it.

It seems like an OK gun. Not going to marry it, though.

[HCountyGuy]

Gotta admit, looking at everything this changes my mind a bit about Sig.

I'll readily admit to being partial to them as my first firearm was a used P226 and I've primarily shopped them. I would say I likely had one of the first P320Cs available and was happy enough with it, but missed my P229 I sold to fund it. Seems to have not been such a bad choice, though I still wanted a P320 again for some reason.

Really mulling over their "voluntary upgrade" announcement, it makes me mad. Basically they acknowledge the problem, but won't recall due to having passed the current industry tests (which may be changed now). Essentially, "We're fine gambling with our customers' safety, even the LEOs currently toting this firearm." Not cool.

Part of me wants to maintain the thought of "Well it's really not that common a problem," yet the adage "It's not the odds, it's the stakes" comes to mind if incidents did arise from this issue.

I've not researched Cohen's history, but seems to be quite despised for his business practices.

I've read plenty of complaints of Sig's QC, but naively chalked it up to possible lemons and the fact some people are going to bitch just because.

I'll more than likely keep up with my P229, I really like the thing. Some small part of me wants to try a fixed P320, but this kind of handling of the issue gives me pause.

[RevolverRob]

Upon further thought and review. Good opportunity for any company to step up and offer DPD and other agenices a stack of 320 replacements at loss-leader prices. When I was slinging guns for a living, guys didn't hesitate to drop a brand if they did something wrong by their local PDs. If HK/Glock/FN/Walther/Smith don't have a sales reps calling departments that have picked and/or issued P320s every day to find out what they need and/or want? They're crazy.

If I were running contracts for HK, I'd be all over this trying to get VP9s and/or P30 LEMs into DPD holsters. So what if we loss-lead to get the initial contract? Capitalizing on the failure(s) of our competition, stepping up and making their wrong, right? That's that type of thing that gets people buying more guns. You can't buy good will, only earn it.

[Stephanie B]

Upon further thought and review. Good opportunity for any company to step up and offer DPD and other agenices a stack of 320 replacements at loss-leader prices. When I was slinging guns for a living, guys didn't hesitate to drop a brand if they did something wrong by their local PDs. If HK/Glock/FN/Walther/Smith don't have a sales reps calling departments that have picked and/or issued P320s every day to find out what they need and/or want? They're crazy.

^^^^^ This.

I was in NYS when the NYPD ordered that the cops stop carrying Kahrs. Glock offered to trade G26s for the old Kahrs plus $50. The gun store I patronized was a Glock stocking dealer; he had stacks of G26s and an almost steady stream of coppers coming in to buy them. And he was a bit of schlep from the city (90 minutes or so).

[JHC]

September G& A on the shelves. Brutal timing.
Attachment 18953

[SamAdams]

Ive got one Sig now. An old P239 I've had for years. Its been an excellent pistol. Too damn heavy for its capacity, though.
I dumped Sig from my consideration list years ago, after their QC went to pot. But, I had actually been considering getting one recently just to dip one toe back in the water again. Looks like that's not gonna happen for awhile, if ever.

[SamAdams]

I reached out to a half-dozen friends and/or former students that may have bought a P320 on my advice. Feel like a schmuck lecturing new shooters on how drop-safe "modern" handguns are with a P320 in my holster.

Well, it could be worse. Coulda recommended a P320 and SERPA holster combo