New CZ P-07 = Mind Blown

[GJM]

Womder if it could be a out of spec firing pin? Can you try and switch your firing pins/springs around?

Three different pistols, same problem.

Any idea which sear spring is installed? Which roller? What weight hammer spring?

The Pro kit as provided by and installed by CGW.

[s0nspark]

Three different pistols, same problem.



The Pro kit as provided by and installed by CGW.

Right, got that. I've seen timing issues introduced with improper roller/sear spring selection.

The more I think about this, though, the more I am inclined to point the finger at the tuning job. Or you are using some kind of massive gorilla grip technique that is deforming the frame ;-D

What response have you gotten from CGW?

[GJM]

CGW says that it is a characteristic of the Omega trigger design — some side deflection on the trigger (and in my case more finger on the trigger which contacts the frame) is causing this to happen.

I thought I could avoid the problem with trigger technique, but it still happens occasionally.

[s0nspark]

CGW says that it is a characteristic of the Omega trigger design — some side deflection on the trigger (and in my case more finger on the trigger which contacts the frame) is causing this to happen.

I can certainly understand why that answer would be unsatisfying...

If you have time and the inclination, I'd love to see a pic of the contact you speak of. I sink a LOT of finger on the trigger (due to long-ish fingers) and am just curious as to how this all is coming together for you.

[GuanoLoco]

No argument, really, but how does one define proper? Is it based purely on results or some sort of safety margin? I have heard many say that polishing stock CZ internals shortens the lifespan of the internals... something that might be okay for gaming (if one had a spare gun or two) but is certainly not what I want in defensive guns.

If you are removing the surface hardening of a part, you have gone way, way, way too far. I’d suggest doing a little research.

[GuanoLoco]

I’ve been on the road, finally getting a chance to analyze the stock trigger, after running 4-6 mags of ammo. No dissassembly, lube or working of the trigger in dry fire.

DA trigger: Measured 1/4” of take-up, then > 10 lbs of pressure required to get the trigger moving. Trigger gauge doesn’t increase afterwards so no obvious stacking *on the gauge*. By feel the trigger comes back about 1/4” once it starts moving then gets noticeably heavier and haev at 2-4+ walls before breaking. If you pull firmly and stedily with > 10 lbs of pressure you blow through the walls pretty easily, but the slower you go the more creep you get.

Then about 3/8” to an audible and tactile reset, 1/4” take-up, then about a 4+ lb SA trigger press with at least 2 detectable walls before the break.

From a statis SA, 3/8” - 1/2” of take-uip, then the same 4+ lb SA trigger press with at least 2 detectable walls before the break.

The walls are certainly detectable with a slow press, but the DA seems relatively smooth when pressing through - not really gritty. The SA on the other hand has some discernable grittiness in the walls.

Grip could IMHO use quite a bit more texture. I like the length of the short beavertail. I haven’t messes with the backstrap panels but the stock panel seems OK for now.

Controls - I have XL hands and can work the decocker without breaking my grip. Frankly if my thump were any longer it would be hard to get to so I think a shorter thumb would be fine. I can also just barely work the slide release without breaking my grip, with any shorter of a thumb this would likely not be possible.

So, for MY P-07, out of the box, I’d say this ia an OK but not really noteworthy quality factory trigger. For ~$520 out-the-door from a bricks-and-wortar specialty gun shop, I can’t really complain. Is a 10+/4+ lb DA/SA without too much creep mind blowing? Not for me, but is has potential for significant improvement.

Am I better off with this than an out-of-the-box Glock trigger? Meh. Is it better than a light tuned, relatively smooth Glock trigger (say 3.5 - 4.0 lb) - definitely not, although the heavy DA might be a good thing from a safety perspective, but it certainly has a cost in terms of the time and effort required to get off a quality first shot.

My CGW Pro Upgrade kit and replacement sights came in but I haven’t had time to install any of it. I also haven’t taken down the gun to measure the bushing; I have some mild concern that the kit bushing might not be the optimal choice but I can always buy another.

I did pick up a spare 17 and 19 round (spare) magazine. I’d prefer to find some kind of spacer for the 19 round mag. I also haven’t thought too much about AIWB and OWB holsters - I’d prefer to get the trigger to a much happer place before I invest much more.

I had a few minutes to release do a field trip and lubrication. The gun seemed quite dry.

Double Action fell to just over nine lbs, Single Action to just under 4 lbs. A little better...

[s0nspark]

If you are removing the surface hardening of a part, you have gone way, way, way too far. I’d suggest doing a little research.

I guess I didn't word that well - I do understand the surface hardening threshold ;-) My attempted point was more that you can tune a gun beyond its reliability threshold if you are too focused on particular results.

[Trukinjp13]

Got mine in this am. First thing I did was the Clusterfrak suggested break in. Greased and oiled her good. Dry fired da about 250-300 times. What a difference that made alone. Then I worked sa pull about 125-150 times. Also really helped with the sa pull.

I forgot how short the reset was in stock form. Coming from the lem is substantially shorter and now I do not know if I care about the srt kit. Gun feels great in hand, its been about 1 1/2 years since my last one. I am happy I came back to her.

Plan is CGW reliability parts and install duty spring kit. Call it good for now. I am glad I did not buy one fully kitted up from CGW. Thank you Cluster and s0nspark for helping stray me towards a mostly stock gun.

Also pic or did not happen right.

[Mirolynmonbro]

Is the symptom of a bent trigger bar spring a light strike?

My issue is no strike, the hammer stops on the shelf and never contacts the primer.

You can see what a trigger bar spring bent too far does by just pushing it out of the way and pulling the trigger. I don't think the issue you're having is being caused by this spring modification

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[GuanoLoco]

I had a few minutes to release do a field trip and lubrication. The gun seemed quite dry.

Double Action fell to just over nine lbs, Single Action to just under 4 lbs. A little better...

I installed the CGW pro-grade upgrade package last night. It took a while to learn how to detail disassemble and reassemble the P-07 from the referenced “Installation Tutorial”. The videos are definitely not a detailed ‘how to’ guide nor do they describe the implications of the various parts and sub-kits included in the assembly, or anything about what to polish. I did leverage some other videos that I pulled off of YouTube for the slide and trigger return spring, which fortunately was very similar to my Tanfoglio Stock 2’s.

Trigger Warning: This process requires some knowledge, skills, tools (roll pin and ability to manufacture simple tools like slave pins and a slotted screwdriver), patience and an investment of time on the part of the installer. If this isn’t you, send it to CGW for installation. It will be $ well spent,

Nothing is said about polishing; that will have to be an exercise for another evening as it took me a good 4 hours to do a first time disassembly and reassembly with the CGW parts. Disassembly and reassembly should go considerably easier next time.

I also didn’t have time to replace the sights with the flat black arrears and front fiber optic.

I’ll admit that I don’t know much about CZ’s, but I am pretty familiar with Tanfoglio Stock 2’s, which are cousins to the CZ-75 models, BUT not at all that similar to the CZ Omega trigger system.

I installed the 15 lb golden ‘competition/range’ hammer spring as opposed to the 18 lb defense spring. I’m guessing more weight options are available from Wolff. For my purposes, if the gun will light off all of my reloaded hard CCI primers reliably I have little doubt it will light off federal HST 147 carry ammo.

I did not install any of the heavier springs. I will note this comment on the senior spring package.

These springs allow you to effortlessly tune your single action trigger pull on the P-07/09 and P-01 and 75B Omega. CGW .018″ wire diameter (yellow) and .020″ wire diameter (natural) sear springs allow an increase in the single action pull weight and prevent “hammer follow”. The OEM sear spring is .016″ wire diameter.

The bit about hammer follow got my attention, but I did decide to just leave the OEM, 0.016 inch spring installed.

I did measure the rouble action roller bearing when I pulled it, outer diameter was 0.223”. The supplied bearing was 0.225”. I am pleased as the web site states, on the page for the 97058-225 Roller Bearing P-07 P-09

TECH TIP: The OEM roller OD can vary quite a bit, ranging from .212″ – .225″. If possible, measure your OEM roller, ideally the CGW roller should have a slightly larger OD compared to the OEM roller. Call for tech support if needed.

I had a few issues, for example, when I incorrectly tried to use the ejector spring in the place of the sear spring and mangled it. I was able to repair it enough to get the operation working but I plan to replace it. I would also suggest labeling the pins and springs as you remove them as opposed to just tossing them in a bin like I did.

Also, reinstallation of the extractor was tricky as CZ doesn’t use a roll pin. It got a little dinged up when I removed it and I had to chuck it in a drill and slightly taper the ends to be able to reinstall it. The firing pin roll pin iwas also dinged up on removal, and I am glad that CGW supplied a heavier duty replacement.

So, after all that, the results:

Double Action fell to just over 8 lbs, with the same quarter inch of take up. I would not describe the double action pole as smooth, but I think this will improve with polishing. If I pull the trigger very slowly I can get six or more out of it, so I think there’s a lot of room for improvement here.

Reset is about a quarter inch, with an audible and tactile reset, then about 3/16 inch of take up , And that about a 16th inch relatively crisp, Single Action break of about 3.5 lbs.

The static single action is about the same, but with about 3/8 inch of take up as opposed to the quarter inch take up after the reset. There is a small touch of grittiness in that final 16th inch of travel, but I would not describe it as having any walls before the break.

So there is improvement. Actually its pretty good at speed, I don’t notice the DA grittiness which is my primary complaint at this point. So, not totally knocking my socks off, but reasonable given the nature and intended purpose of this handgun. If I could get to a meaningfully smoother double action and slightly smoother single action, at roughly 8 lbs DA/3.5 SA, RELIABLE, I think that I would be satisfied.

To be fair, I’m not easily satisfied, but sometimes you need to know when to leave well enough alone.