LOL, OK.Originally Posted by txdpd
The guy who thinks the doubles drill is a great learning and diagnostic tool is the current (and eight time) USPSA Production national champ.
LOL, OK.
The guy who thinks the doubles drill is a great learning and diagnostic tool is the current (and eight time) USPSA Production national champ.
When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk. -Tuco
Today is victory over yourself of yesterday... -Miyamoto Musashi
Assigning different weights to different variables while travelling the path to better performance will be a never ending process for all of us.
Landing doubles into a 2-3 inch group at 5-7 yards shooting teen splits (which is what the doubles drill inventors look for when they practice it themselves) tells you all you need to know about your recoil control, locked wrists being a part of it.
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
While all things considered, I think more grip strength is better than less, I think technique is more important. This afternoon, I was working the doubles drill at 20 yards. Initially, I was getting a mix of A and C hits, with the C’s to the left. I made an adjustment with my support hand, and was then able to keep all A zone hits with splits in the low to mid 20’s.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
So when everything is going well, everything is going well. Terrific. Where's the mechanisms to diagnose "unlocked wrist" as a problem, or confirm the presence of "locked wrist" in shooting doubles when it's not going well?
Whether you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.
I wouldn’t get hung up on locked wrist or any one thing. Just like trigger technique, we often run into issues around the language we use, how others interpret words, and individual variations in technique.
I think what we can agree on, is our stance and grip should bring the pistol back to a place where we can fire a fast follow-up shot without having to re-grip the pistol or move it so the sights are properly aligned. There are multiple elements to make that happen, starting with stance, then grip, and even the timing with which we manipulate the trigger.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
The point is to interpret the pattern you are shooting to understand why the hits aren't there. The other thing is that as you shoot the "Doubles drill" you are supposed to be paying close attention to your hands so you can detect preignition push, unlocked wrists, etc.
I shoot the target and pay attention to what I feel in my hands when it works.
I change things and pay attention to what I am changing, wrist locking and tension included, when it doesn't.
There is a specific pattern on the target that poorly locked wrists give, but it is also shared with a couple of other problems. I try to isolate which one and get the result I want. The diagnostic mechanism is a correction and elimination of variables, one at the time.
In practice it is much simple and less verbose than in posts here. I just shoot the target and vary one thing at the time until I am happy, or until it is time to go home.
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
So is it shooting doubles or a hyper state of self awareness? Shooting zen? If you have shooting zen why do you need doubles?
Whether you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.
@arcfide
I'd step back and ask why we are locking our wrist in the first place. As Hwansik illustrated, and as the late Ron Avery said illustrated before him ( I have a sneaking suspicion that a large measure of what Hwansik is advocating is something that he learned from Ron Avery's videos on lines of force, etc.), we are locking the wrist of our shooting hand to manage muzzle flip as we are isolating the trigger finger as we pull it back. i think this is the key to understanding why we lock our shooting hand wrist - we can lock our wrist (at any angle for that matter as Mike Seeklander illustrates in one of his videos) while freely moving our fingers, permitting us to pull the trigger straight back. And notice I say locking the wrist, not wrists. focus on locking the shooting hand wrist, while CRUSHING with your support hand. Crushing, according to Seeklander, automatically involves locking (so we don't have to worry about locking the support hand wrist - we already are when we crush with the support hand).
Crush with support hand, firmly grip and lock your shooting hand (NOT crush, as this will impede the trigger finger) - and this is exactly what Stoeger advocates.
What's more, where is your mental focus when you are pulling the trigger? Yes, you should see your sights and target, but also devote a good measure of your focus on your hands and how they feel. The active focus should help you lock that shooting hand wrist..... Again, this is something that Stoeger also suggests - your focus should be on your hands and how they feel as you are pulling the trigger....
And your goal should not be eliminating muzzle flip - the goal should be to manage muzzle flip, a consistent tracking of the sights, six to 12 and back. Aspiring for a flatter recoil only leads to following shots going low and left. Don't forget - the slide recoils AND returns. i know, damn obvious, but something I need to remind myself as well. Super Dave Harrington's video on recoil control ably illustrates that point. The returning slide will assist you in getting back on target. So aspire NOT for flatter shooting, but for a well managed recoil and return. Youll see that should you aspire for this, your follow up shots will be on top of or close to your preceding shot.
The doubles drill brings all of these concerns into very sharp focus, hence the excellence of it as a diagnostic tool (for that matter, I dont know why Ben Stoeger calls it a drill. All of his drills are basically diagnostics....). Focusing on your hands and what they are doing as you are shooting this drill are the key to accurate and rapid follow up shots....and to practical marksmanship.
Last edited by gomerpyle; 12-29-2019 at 11:16 PM.
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