RFI: Bow hunting

[Odin Bravo One]

Fortunately for me, crossbows are legal for hunting here in VA. Unfortunately, I’ll still need someone to cock it for me. There are certainly bigger tragedies, but a slight inconvenience just the same.

The biggest difference I found between my high end, top of the line bows, and my “go to” middle of the road bow that gets (got) nearly exclusive use over the years is how dead they kill the animal. The top of the line, expensive bows kill the animals deader than my PSE Bow Madness. That said, the PSE mid-range bow kills deer dead, just not as dead as the other bows. (Before the tight panty squad takes this seriously, and writes a 40 paragraph diatribe about my comments, it’s called fucking “sarcasm”)

Had a Marine from Quantico come down to our property twice last season and was a first year bow Hunter using a ten year old PSE that he bought fully loaded with ten year old tech as a package deal with arrows, field points, broad heads, quiver, etc. He didn’t harvest a deer, but that’s because of other variables. He could shoot the bow extremely well for a rookie, and after only a few months of practice, had the ability and confidence to take a 50 yard shot under field conditions. IIRC, he was three bills lighter for the entire package. He had $ to burn, and bought a new bow, top of the line everything with the latest and greatest tech upgrades after the season ended. He’s now upset with himself for wasting money on shit that doesn’t make a practical difference in regards to his hunting applications. His max range is still 50 yards, and doesn’t expect that to increase simply due to the bow being more expensive. Time, training, and practice are what makes the difference, and he had to learn this the hard way. He’s going to use his new expensive top of the line bow because he paid for it, and his wife will shit a second chicken (first was when he bought the bow) if he doesn’t use it.

As you can see from the below photograph, the PSE Bow Madness doesn’t kill deer as dead as some hunters like:

[Caballoflaco]

I’m not a compound shooter, but I will offer this advice. Don’t pick a draw weight based on what you can pull a dozen times comfortably while you’re at the shop. I’ve shot with way too many guys who are smoked after shooting twenty arrows during a two hour league night. Also; there are a surprisingly large number of holes in the ceiling of the indoor range from guys who have to sky-draw their 70lb bow and accidentally trigger the realeas while they’re drawing or almost tear their arms out of their sockets if they have to let down.

A 50lb compound bow will with the correct arrow will kill anything you can bowhunt in North America. A lighter weight bow will be more fun to practice with and let you get better faster because you’ll be able to shoot more in a practice session. It will also be easier to draw from less than ideal positions while you’re hunting, possibly in bulky clothes and cold or stiff from not moving much. I have no problem shooting through deer with a 46lb recurve and a sharp broadhead that’s shooting an arrow at 190 FPS, that’s well over 100fps slower than what a compound shoots.

[mmc45414]

I was going to add that this stuff sure can be confusing, since things like a bow sight can cost as much as a pistol magazine, or as much as a pistol.

Don’t pick a draw weight based on what you can pull a dozen times comfortably while you’re at the shop. ... A 50lb compound bow will with the correct arrow will kill anything you can bowhunt in North America.

So easy to start chasing that magical fps number you think you ought to be getting. I made it up to 68 pounds before an unrelated injury (Honeysuckle+ATV+TowStrap=NoArchery) sidelined me for a while. Now if I find a bow that maxes out at fifty the smart thing would be for me to buy it.

I also kept trying to draw longer and longer, and turns out no matter how much I practiced and practiced my arms just never ever got any longer...

[Mitch]

Are crossbows legal for archery season where you are?

I picked up a Wicked Ridge crossbow last Black Friday to expand my hunting seasons and try to start getting back in the field.

I shot a compound growing up and into college but unless I could get my wife into it I didn’t feel like I could put enough time into it to feel ethical. The crossbow let me cheat and feel comfortable taking a reasonable shot.

If it’s truly about time in the field and not the passion of archery and the crossbow is legal it might be the answer.

Crossbows are legal, and I think you called me on my own BS there. For whatever reason I really have no interest in a crossbow, so maybe I am a little more invested in this as a hobby than I thought.

I was going to add that this stuff sure can be confusing, since things like a bow sight can cost as much as a pistol magazine, or as much as a pistol.


So easy to start chasing that magical fps number you think you ought to be getting. I made it up to 68 pounds before an unrelated injury (Honeysuckle+ATV+TowStrap=NoArchery) sidelined me for a while. Now if I find a bow that maxes out at fifty the smart thing would be for me to buy it.

I also kept trying to draw longer and longer, and turns out no matter how much I practiced and practiced my arms just never ever got any longer...

You got that right. I’m not opposed to paying for quality but for someone brand new to this...it’s hard to see where the line should be.

I think @Giving Back nailed it, though. Dead is dead so there seems to be a real point of diminishing returns for my purpose. I’m sure there’s much better value on the used market but since I don’t know what I’m looking at and want to support the local shop, I’m buying new. Probably PSE, maybe Mission, most likely not Matthews.

Thanks everyone, this has been helpful. And definitely keep the info coming.

I guess my question right now is this. Where does durability come into this? If I get a Stinger, Brute, or Drive would one be more likely than the other to break down or need tuning after a summer full of practice heading into hunting season?

[Gio]

I got heavy into archery about 3 years ago, and consider it almost equal to my pistol shooting hobby now (which is saying a lot). Needless to say, it's a deep rabbit hole.

In my opinion, the bow makes less of a difference than accessories. There hasn't been a significant change to bow efficiency and technology in the last 7-8 years (maybe longer?) with regards to how fast and accurately they shoot arrows. A lot of the technological advancements have been in how easy the bows are to tune or to stay in tune. Look for used equipment on the Archerytalk classifieds. For some reason archery gear depreciates an incredible amount as soon as it's taken out of the package. You can find ridiculous deals on top of the line equipment for 40-60% off MSRP for like new condition. You can buy top of the line bows from 2016-2018 for about $400-500 compared to the new 2021 bows for $1100-1200, rests that MSRP for $150-200 can be found for $75-100, releases that MSRP for $250 can be found for $125-150, sights that MSRP for $300+ can be found $175, etc.

If I were getting into archery on a budget and really wanted to buy a new bow from a local shop, I'd buy a top of the line sight, rest, and release used on archery talk, then go in and buy a budget line bow at a shop and have them put those accessories on it. If you decide you want to jump in with both feet down the road, those accessories can easily be moved to another bow. The worst thing you can do is buy a high end $1000 bow and throw a whisker biscuit rest, $50 sight, and use a $30 index finger trigger release.

For rests, I'd recommend Hamskea Trinity or QAD HDX or MXT

For releases, a handheld tension release like a NockOn silverback, Carter evolution+, or Stan Element

For a hunting sight, a Spot Hogg Fast Eddie or an HHA is hard to beat.

John Dudley (NockOn archery) is the best source of information in the archery community. He's got everything from beginner/never shot a bow before videos, to advanced coaching videos, to how to be your own bow mechanic videos, and it's all free on his website and YouTube channel.

Beware of archery shops, they tend to be like gun shops in my experience. You'll have a few knowledgeable guys that really know what they are doing, and others that talk a big talk and will steer you way down the wrong path while charging you for it the whole way.

[kjr_29]

I guess my question right now is this. Where does durability come into this? If I get a Stinger, Brute, or Drive would one be more likely than the other to break down or need tuning after a summer full of practice heading into hunting season?

Durability will be reflective of where the manufacturer saved costs on the price point bows (example - smaller cam axles, lower grade cam bearings). They should all be durable, save for string wear/stretch provided you don’t dry fire or drop it on a cam. If the limb pockets are not aluminum, that would concern me on some tolerances as well. If you shoot all summer, set up a time to get into the shop for a quick tune check before you head off into the woods.


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[Caballoflaco]

If you shoot all summer, set up a time to get into the shop for a quick tune check before you head off into the woods.
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What I do with a recurve, and you should be able to do with a well-tuned compound is keep a couple of bareshafts (arrows without fletching) in your quiver. I usually shoot the bareshafts at least a couple of times during every practice session and if they’re still grouping with my fletched shafts I know my tune hasn’t changed and my set up is still good. That also eliminates any equipment alibis for missed shots.

Just make sure you don’t bareshaft with broadheads, only field points.

[Lester Polfus]

I clearly don't have much cogent advice to give on the bow, but I would say I'm a firm believer in heavy arrows with single bevel broad heads. Second to poor shooting, the shitshow outcomes I've seen from bowhunters have been the result of insufficient arrow penetration by using too light of an arrow, with too light of a point. Throw in some kind of trick expanding broad head in the mix and you've got the trifecta.

[Odin Bravo One]

That also eliminates any equipment alibis for missed shots.

If anyone has a shortage of excuses for missed shots, give me a shout. I gotta backpack full of em......

[Jim Watson]

Anecdote Alert:

I am NOT an archer but a friend is, or was while his shoulders were healthy.
He likes the traditional bow like Lester's.
His best hunting story was shooting a genuine European wild boar (in genuine Europe) with a bow as the unhappy critter got close enough that his partner went up a tree.