RAT blade question

[voodoo_man]

He has two posts in this thread....

Both complete troll bait nonsense.

None of them are incorrect, save for the Defoor comments as we do know handmade, USA Rats exist. Question becomes is are the $500 blade packages US made and that answer is no. Even that's not an issue... I have two Chinese knifes on my now. They're great for my needs and their US equivalent prices would be cost prohibitive.

That which can be asserted without evidence can be disregarded just the same.

He has not proven anything other than the fact he's a troll who is here for one specific purpose and that is to bring up Sayoc/STG and try to piss on that organization. That is his only goal here.

Not sure what you're referring to here.

Did you get a certain blade after not being able to get it a few years ago?

Also correct, only one person I believe showed up to the free classes Tom offered. Granted there was travel involved so it's not entirely on the posters here for not flying across country on a few weeks notice.

The fact a free class was even offered should have completely crushed any questions.

[Mirnyx]

since Defoor has done more for the Rat blades than anyone else, and he's big on buying American made products, I wonder if he knows.

That was my thought as well. Just attended his 2 day course a few weeks ago and he is a BIG proponent of buying american made.

People in the knife world connected the dots along time ago with the RAT blade. It has been brought up to him so he is aware. Given his well known position of buying american, it seems odd.

Bottom line is someone made the decision to create this blade and named it after a man to honor him. Somewhere along the line a decision was made to outsource production to another country. Forget the grade of steel, price or perceived value. Why didn't someone step up and say we named this blade after a fallen brother out of respect, it needs to be made here? That tells you everything you need to know.

Regardless of where you stand on Sayoc, this is a shining example that shows brotherhood is worth less than the almighty dollar.

[Cheap Shot]

People in the knife world connected the dots along time ago with the RAT blade. It has been brought up to him so he is aware. Given his well known position of buying american, it seems odd.

Bottom line is someone made the decision to create this blade and named it after a man to honor him. Somewhere along the line a decision was made to outsource production to another country. Forget the grade of steel, price or perceived value. Why didn't someone step up and say we named this blade after a fallen brother out of respect, it needs to be made here? That tells you everything you need to know.

Regardless of where you stand on Sayoc, this is a shining example that shows brotherhood is worth less than the almighty dollar.

Non sequitur

[El Cid]

I've not trained with Sayoc and I'm not for/against them. But I was of the impression Sayoc was training active duty guys like Defoor who would definitely be "pressure testing" what they learned. Maybe I misunderstood.

Based on what Defoor himself told me and a couple others it has been in use by his teammates. That was in 2012. I know what it's like to be lied to and he wasn't lying. I also have a contact still in that unit who confirmed it through other conversations.

As to the question of where the knives are made I have no intel to provide. I purchased mine when it was on significant sale a few years ago. I would be disappointed if it was made overseas but that's water under the bridge now for me.

[secondstoryguy]

My 2014 (?) vintage RAT blade appears to be handground as there are slight variations in the grind(I've made knives using the stock removal method and it looks made by hand). My newer RAT blade(no overseas markings) looks a lot more semetrical and possibly is machine made...or whoever was making them got a lot better at grinding. Either way I think a set with a live blade, nice training blade, and two Bladerigs sheaths for around $400 isn't ridiculous.

[43Under]

I don't ever recall Defoor saying he'd only buy or peddle American stuff. I seem to recall him saying on Facebook that he was going to make a significant effort to use and promote USA-made stuff as much as possible. But I don't recall it being an absolute.

I just got my Rat. It occurred to me that I don't care where it was made. Just like I don't care if one of my Glocks says "Made in Austria" while another says "Made in the USA". I care that it does what I ask of it, and I expect and hope that it will.

As for the price, it is a bit pricey. With the Defoor discount it's $400. Another knife I had considered was the Sentinel Gear Mk 3, once promoted by the manufacturer here on Pistol Forum. That knife is $225, has an inferior (IMO) chisel grind, comes with what appears to be an inferior sheath, and does not come with a matched trainer.

To me, those differences are worth the cost difference. Beyond that, the market determines what is and what is not "too expensive". If the Rat is made OCONUS, well, I was never led to believe that it was made in the USA anyway. IF I had been, then maybe I'd be a little pissed. But I wasn't, so it really doesn't matter.

[BillSWPA]

I would very much like to see more stuff made in the US. However, before criticizing someone for having something made elsewhere, perhaps one should try having a similar product made in the US, and see how easy/hard it is, as well as what it costs.


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[Cecil Burch]

I would very much like to see more stuff made in the US. However, before criticizing someone for having something made elsewhere, perhaps one should try having a similar product made in the US, and see how easy/hard it is, as well as what it costs.


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Actually, I have been involved in that as well as involved in having something made overseas.

I have bought knives handmade in the US at the $500 mark. I have no issue with that at all. I also know what the costs are of doing something production overseas and it is nowhere near that. I can safely say that the profit margin on a Taiwan made RAT is probably around 400%. Being a dedicated capitalist, I have no issue with that at all. The market should always decide what is a fair price.

What I object to is the obsfucation of the simple question of where the knife is made. Even on this thread, apologists were trying to get as much attention away from the question as possible ("the packaging was made in Taiwan"? Seriously? What other item has package material marked that way? Absolutely nothing. Talk about straw grasping). Even emails that say they have two lines, but there is no mention of that on their website of or FB page? That is deliberate. I felt before the price for the blade was a tad high. Now, I know it is.

[Mirnyx]

I don't ever recall Defoor saying he'd only buy or peddle American stuff. I seem to recall him saying on Facebook that he was going to make a significant effort to use and promote USA-made stuff as much as possible. But I don't recall it being an absolute.

You're correct, not an absolute. The words below are pulled directly from his site when he kicked off the Made in USA series.

"With the revamping of my company I’ve decided that we will support American manufacturing. It’s unrealistic to think I can have every piece of kit I need Made in the USA (a stopwatch for example), but whenever possible and feasible this will be our way moving forward."

I think most will agree, it's possible and feasible to support American manufacturing when it comes to blades. He supports or promotes a lot of gear that falls under "buy once, cry once" so the added cost of an American made blade should be a non-issue.

[blues]

As a super mod on perhaps the world's largest knife forum for the past 18 years or so, this is an issue that comes up often and imho shouldn't need to.

All makers, whether custom or production just need to be honest with their customers and potential customers.

It is not complicated to tell the truth about the source of the materials nor the country where the knife is built or assembled. Any attempt to circumvent providing these details, such as whether a knife is hand made, mid-tech, or straight off a conveyor belt...or what the steel is... is tantamount to lying and deceiving the customer.

We have had folks over the years present production knives as custom, overseas built knives as domestic, and everything else under the sun. If I have sufficient evidence of the malfeasance, they are outed and banned from the site.

I, personally, will not patronize those who lie and deceive. If I own one of their knives when I find out, it is quickly removed by selling, given away or discarded. Life's too short to support cheaters.

I hope the folks in this thread with skin in the game get the answers they seek.