M1152 & M1153 9mm Loads Info

[Chuck Haggard]

Wow, that is a really thick jacket. Might even constitute >25% of total projectile mass which would make it a restricted/limited item here in the US.

That ammo is exactly why said law is worded that way.

[HCM]

I don't know. I knew some SF types who used Swedish K's and Browning Hi-Powers "over the line" in Laos, and they argued about the same thing. I'd think highish, center-of-the-chest shots, and shots that hit bone would work, but some had less-than-stellar reviews of 9mm FMJ based on up close and personal experience. Of course, the NVA tended to be very skinny so the bullets were unlikely to yaw until after passing through the body. In addition, they were in heavy bush and often outright jungle so you tended to see glimpses of khaki until you were only feet awy, which meant that a lot of hits were going to be marginal.

One of the things about the Simbas (though not the NVA) is that they really did believe they couldn't be hurt so they tended to keep fighting until they suddenly dropped dead. Kind of like the Moro jihadis in the Philippines.

I am skeptical to say the least. Troops too concerned about Hague convention issues to use effective ammo are likely missing, or at least not getting solid high chest hits. Review of video from the Blackhawk down incident revealed similar results with regard to the supposedly “ineffective” green tip 5.56.

The Moro’s were not just true believers. Like many of their modern counterparts in ISIL etc they were high as kites on opium etc.

[j.d.allen]

I am skeptical to say the least. Troops too concerned about Hague convention issues to use effective ammo are likely missing, or at least not getting solid high chest hits. Review of video from the Blackhawk down incident revealed similar results with regard to the supposedly “ineffective” green tip 5.56.

The Moro’s were not just true believers. Like many of their modern counterparts in ISIL etc they were high as kites on opium etc.

or khat...

[That Guy]

Troops too concerned about Hague convention issues to use effective ammo are likely missing, or at least not getting solid high chest hits.

That sounds like you are confusing the blokes on the ground and flag officers at the HQ? I doubt that for the blokes actually doing the shooting, following Hague convention rules on projectiles was their greatest concern...?

As for getting solid hits, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't general the general understanding of terminal ballistics around 1964 at the point where "any hit, anywhere" was widely considered a good idea? So training did not exactly emphasize hits on high center chest (not that it does that even today, in many places)?

[revchuck38]

This ammo looks suspiciously like the M1152 load. 115 grain, FMJ FP. Listed at 1300 fps. Comes in brown boxes.

Attachment 37595

Pretty good groups out of my HK P30L. 1.375" in the x-ring at 20 yards.

I ordered some of this, plus some 124-grain Magtech and Fiocchi FMJ, for chronograph purposes. The plan is to run them through my P99C (3.5"), PX4 (4") and CZ-75B (4.7"). I'm actually more interested in the 124-grain loads as softer primer alternatives to Winchester NATO-spec and S&B, especially at the prices I've seen for them.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I ordered some of this, plus some 124-grain Magtech and Fiocchi FMJ, for chronograph purposes. The plan is to run them through my P99C (3.5"), PX4 (4") and CZ-75B (4.7"). I'm actually more interested in the 124-grain loads as softer primer alternatives to Winchester NATO-spec and S&B, especially at the prices I've seen for them.

Where did you buy that ammo?

[the Schwartz]

I ordered some of this, plus some 124-grain Magtech and Fiocchi FMJ, for chronograph purposes. The plan is to run them through my P99C (3.5"), PX4 (4") and CZ-75B (4.7"). I'm actually more interested in the 124-grain loads as softer primer alternatives to Winchester NATO-spec and S&B, especially at the prices I've seen for them.

I'd appreciate seeing that velocity data from those different barrel lengths here if you'd be interested in posting it.

[revchuck38]

Where did you buy that ammo?

I ordered it from here, which is where @LtDave got his from. Note that they give the velocity as 1190 fps, so I'm guessing that it's the same bullet over a different powder charge.

I'd appreciate seeing that velocity data from those different barrel lengths here if you'd be interested in posting it.

That's the plan.

[HCM]

or khat...

Yes the Somalis chewed Khat and Khat is Stimulant but it is not a that strong a stimulant. Just like chewing coca leaves does not equal the effects of cocaine. Review of video from the incident shows lots of misses. Increasing hit ratios over iron sights was a driving factor in the Army adopting aim points just before the GWOT.

[JHC]

Hmmm....what exactly does the increased velocity offer in terms of terminal performance effects?

Providing a stout jacket, my assumption would be barrier penetration, but then, I was reading too much into the quoted velocity.