LE uniforms dressing down ?

[TGS]

When I started I came to work dressed like every other rookie...just like the older guys. As a matter of fact, once one of the other FTOs found out I was an MP he begged to get rid of his rookie. He knew nothing about me or my background...he just knew the standard (he had been an MP also) and he was willing to gamble on it versus the shitbag he had (who eventually was fired when he came to work impaired and wrecked a patrol car).

I never complained about the uniform...I just came to work, made arrests, and took my calls...The older dudes never scoffed at me either. I wanted to work and prove my worth, not only to the guys I worked with, but to myself that this was a career for me.

Move the time line 24 years and these new guys are scared. They’ve never been punched in the face and they were awarded participation trophy’s as children. They were given everything. As cops they bemoan the duty uniform and duty belt and want concessions. Wear the uniform or hit the road...that’s my opinion. However, most agencies are finding it hard to hire quality applicants and they adjust their standard. They’re paying them top-dollar too...I started making $21000.00/year... and I was happy to get it! These jokers now start at $45000.00/year and they can’t be motivated. It’s a rare occasion when you get a rookie who is actually proactive and seeks out warrant services and Drunks.

I know it seems like I’m ranting...but I’m not trying too. There is definitely a generational gap in mindset between my generation and the millennials. These new folks have a “hard row to hoe” if they stay in LE for 30 years.

Uniforms should look professional and the body inside it should too.

On Chucks, there are several agencies around here, most notably NCSHP, that require their officers wear shiny chukkas year-round along with long sleeves & tie.

FWIW, that $21k salary is about the same buying power as a $45k salary today due to inflation. They're not actually making more money than you were when you started.

"Chucks" is a reference to Service Charlies in the USMC, not Chukka boots. Service Charlies are similar to most traditional police uniforms......actually, many police departments got their start using ex-military uniforms, including the Vermont State Police actually using surplus USMC service uniforms.

Chukka boots are cool, though I prefer other styles.

Sorry to hear that you feel you're in an agency of shitbags. Can't say the same about mine, as the younger agents are doing stuff the boomers and gen Xrs never dared doing because of the agency culture and roots they were brought into (we weren't statutory LEOs until the 80s). I don't think that means our seniors are qualitatively inferior, but they do cause the majority of unnecessary problems when Shit Needs to Get Done^TM.

Instead of being qualitatively inferior, it's also possible your new hires are being bred into a system of inaction due to the sharp erosion of LE powers over the last decade or two. Not that I agree with it, but society wants law encouragement, not law enforcement...…..so it's no wonder that new hires are coming into LE with a different mindset because the only thing they see from proactiveness in street policing these days is liability and punishment.

My point is that it has very little to do with what generation a person is from. It's more a matter of circumstance.

But, yeah, FWIW in terms of officer retention, taking the mindset of, "stop being a pussy and self-medicate" isn't the right answer in today's society.

[KeeFus]

FWIW, that $21k salary is about the same buying power as a $45k salary today due to inflation. They're not actually making more money than you were when you started.

"Chucks" is a reference to Service Charlies in the USMC, not Chukka boots. Service Charlies are similar to most traditional police uniforms......actually, many police departments got their start using ex-military uniforms, including the Vermont State Police actually using surplus USMC service uniforms.

Chukka boots are cool, though I prefer other styles.

Sorry to hear that you feel you're in an agency of shitbags. Can't say the same about mine, as the younger agents are doing stuff the boomers and gen Xrs never dared doing because of the agency culture and roots they were brought into (we weren't statutory LEOs until the 80s). I don't think that means our seniors are qualitatively inferior, but they do cause the majority of unnecessary problems when Shit Needs to Get Done^TM.

Instead of being qualitatively inferior, it's also possible your new hires are being bred into a system of inaction due to the sharp erosion of LE powers over the last decade or two. Not that I agree with it, but society wants law encouragement, not law enforcement...…..so it's no wonder that new hires are coming into LE with a different mindset because the only thing they see from proactiveness in street policing these days is liability and punishment.

My point is that it has very little to do with what generation a person is from. It's more a matter of circumstance.

But, yeah, FWIW in terms of officer retention, taking the mindset of, "stop being a pussy and self-medicate" isn't the right answer in today's society.

Gotcha.

I will leave the new-gen cops issue with this. One of our narcotics detectives is a millennial. He still lives at home with his parents. I wish I was lying but I’m not. He’s in his mid 20’s and fits a specific profile, which is why he’s in that position.

[TGS]

Gotcha.

I will leave the new-gen cops issue with this. One of our narcotics detectives is a millennial. He still lives at home with his parents. I wish I was lying but I’m not. He’s in his mid 20’s and fits a specific profile, which is why he’s in that position.

That knife cuts both ways, sir.

If only he had parents from a generation that knew how to be parents and could teach kids hard lessons of life instead of being a generation of coddlers, blue-ribbon givers, and helicopter-moms.

[voodoo_man]

I will leave the new-gen cops issue with this. One of our narcotics detectives is a millennial. He still lives at home with his parents. I wish I was lying but I’m not. He’s in his mid 20’s and fits a specific profile, which is why he’s in that position.

I'm still trying to figure out where it's written that early twenty somethings are supposed to move out on their own? This isn't 1970, now a days when a teen turns 18, they usually go off to college, or start to work, the barrier to living on their own is sometimes too high for a single person.

In my PD's academy the rookies are encouraged to find someone to room mate with after finishing the academy, especially if they come from outside of the county. This is because living in or around many desirable areas (or even some undesirable areas) is still too expensive for a single new officer in a starting pay grade. Those who have parents in the area, and have the ability to do so, live at home to save money for a house.

That's not indicative of trying to shy away from responsibility or maturity, that's literally the smartest thing anyone can possibly do in their situation being single.

This stigma associated with living at home into your twenties needs to die off, as it makes absolutely no sense at all.

As for your millennial detective, when he is ready and/or gets married, he will have enough money to buy a house, start a family, and not go into serious debt doing so. There's no shame in that at all.

[Magsz]

Gotcha.

I will leave the new-gen cops issue with this. One of our narcotics detectives is a millennial. He still lives at home with his parents. I wish I was lying but I’m not. He’s in his mid 20’s and fits a specific profile, which is why he’s in that position.

Who gives a crap? Does the guy do good work? Does he look neat and presentable and wear his uniform/slacks and polo well? Does he represent the agency well while he is on the job? If so, he could live with his parents until he dies and that's his choice, not yours and has ZERO reflection on how he conducts himself professionally.

Take it easy with the salt brother, that shit causes high blood pressure. (metaphor my friend).

We have other shit to worry about.

[JustOneGun]

This is a bit of unprofessional, taking a chance of not being recognized as an officer and changing times. Meaning it's tough for me to separate my old codger syndrome and professionalism. LOL.

I would suggest that as a UNIFORM, by it's very definition is the same for everyone. Our drug teams would serve warrants wearing blue jeans, tac vest with generic police on it and wonder why druggies thought they were being ripped. Giving them an excuse is bad. Giving them a legitimate excuse is crazy.

Now having said that, if I go to Southern Arizona the uniform for many decades was/is un-faded blue jeans and a traditionally marked tan shirt for the county sheriff deputies. I have no idea what they wear now. I guess it was/is a frontier thing? But they all looked like that. It was uniform. I even saw them come to court in my county wearing that uniform. It was THE uniform. Strangely enough, they looked professional in the uniform.

As for beards I understand in my old job it is allowed. I suspected either a court decision involving religion, for recruiting or both? We've forgotten that one of the main reasons for not wearing a beard is gas mask. Having the pleasure of attending two massive break and burn shit riots I wore the mask a few times each night. Perhaps they have a new mask that allows for beards?

[voodoo_man]

Since I brought it up in my post and I see the word being used repeatedly I am genuinely curious. We have such a wide range in LE experience, so the answers may be interesting.

Question:

Explain how the term "professionalism" applies to a uniform and grooming.

[BehindBlueI's]

Since I brought it up in my post and I see the word being used repeatedly I am genuinely curious. We have such a wide range in LE experience, so the answers may be interesting.

Question:

Explain how the term "professionalism" applies to a uniform and grooming.

Multi-faceted, but primarily it sets you apart from the laymen and easily identifies you as a member of the given professional group/body. It connects you to the tradition of that professional body. It gains you the benefit of the doubt with the laity. You are no longer just an individual, you are a member of something much larger than yourself.

There's no real reason a commercial pilot needs a uniform (and apparently cargo only flights often don't require it), but if you got to pick which otherwise identical plane you were going to fly on, would you honestly be at equal ease if you saw a guy in a tank top and cut off jeans in the cockpit of plane #1 vs a traditional pilot's uniform in plane #2? Just flip a coin because appearance don't matter and they're probably both fine? That sort of egalitarianism might exist in hypotheticals, but I think plane #2 is going to fill up a lot quicker.

[TGS]

As for beards I understand in my old job it is allowed. I suspected either a court decision involving religion, for recruiting or both? We've forgotten that one of the main reasons for not wearing a beard is gas mask. Having the pleasure of attending two massive break and burn shit riots I wore the mask a few times each night. Perhaps they have a new mask that allows for beards?

FWIW, I've worn an SCBA (as have numerous people from my organization) with a beard, and it didn't impact our seal in internal fire rescue exercises. These are standard NFPA(?) SCBAs used by fire departments, on the demand valve setting (not the free flow positive pressure setting). Our tactical team carries SCBAs for personnel recovery, and they literally all have beards....no issues. I know, any FF reading this right now is going to scream bloody murder as we all board the SS Jealousy on a voyage to "back in my day!", and that's literally the same thing that gets exclaimed yearly when our agency does this exercise with a very large, internationally respected FD...….Regardless, what it comes down to is no issues in actual use.

There are masks that allow for beards better than others due to where it seals, and "average" beards don't interfere with it. Maybe your old work just has limits on how big the beard can be so that it doesn't interfere with where the seal is actually at.

As long as you don't have a ZZ Top beard I think the idea that beards pose a danger to cops throwing CS grenades is a bit unrealistic.

[Magsz]

Nope,

The Avon mask which seems to be the hotness these days sucks ass when it comes to facial hair. You can feel the CS leaking around your beard hairs. :P