Temple Index

[cpd2110]

There was an Indiana State Trooper who died using the method that Spaulding describes. The troop put his shoulder into a door on a warrant and the gun discharged into his head. Obviously he had a finger on the trigger and the gun most likely lower than they are describing. For years after all of the tactically inclined guys I rode with as a police explorer would talk about that incident and then say don't do "high Sabrina," a take on the Charlie's Angels show of that era. When I saw this technique many months ago I was taken back to that time frame.

One of our guys was also exposed to a similar technique though not as aggressive as what Nyeti described from the "unit," from two active duty guys. He came back to the team and wanted us to go to it. I immediately said no, we are not them and never will be. He was not happy about it. I called a friend who retired from that same unit, he said yes there was a technique used with pistols only and under very specific circumstances. He was glad that I had seen the light and said more individuals, teams etc need to realize the difference between guys who train for thousands of iterations and have the combat time to back up such techniques vs. the guy/gal who the average shooter but will never be even close to the level of skill the unit guys possess.

I see this as guys getting worked up over a technique that most should steer clear of.

[SLG]

I was relayed information that the use of this technique in a very small NSW segment was to provide a place to put the pistol when working with the large four tube night vision devices. I can imagine finding your holster with suppressed pistol working under those devices would be difficult in a dynamic environment overseas. Placing it between the outer tube and against a ballistic helmet to move to a location where you can get the pistol secured makes sense. True or not, I don't know. And while it makes sense in that exact scenario......it is one of those "that's neat" things for me on something that will never be part of my world and a tool for someone else's tool box.

If this is true, (not doubting Nyeti) there is a big difference between a guy with quad tubes and a helmet, and everyone else. Three of the big problems with TI is the loss of peripheral vision, the muzzle too close to the grape, and the lack of ability to retain it. Those three are pretty much negated by a guy with nods/helmet/teammates surrounding him. Doesn't mean it's the best solution for that environment either, but if that environment isn't your environment, best to stay out of it. Translating that use to an unarmored guy in a car or school is where it really falls apart. There are much more proven ways to not muzzle people below you, while maintaining good vision and retention. High port is very useful. Position 10, for those of you who get that reference, has been around and in use by various units for a long time. It is a transitional position, and sometimes an admin position. Nothing more. High port is a ready position. A ready position offers way more in terms of shooting and fighting than and admin or transitional position. I realize I'm wandering a bit now, but really, these things have been worked out for quite some time. I think part of the problem is when operational guys, maybe even serious guys, try to piece various schools and ideas together. If you haven't been through a comprehensive operator training course, its a lot easier to fall for the "latest" thing that you see some other guy do. One guys experience is great...for him. Hundreds of guys is way better. Note, training "hundreds of guys", is not the same...

[breakingtime91]

can we get some pics up of various ready positions? This is a really good thread and pics would only make it better,

[JHC]

No, the strong is suppose to be over the weak. Weak is touching sternum under the gun.

Thanks, I didn't like it and dumped memory apparently. When you referred to it as an "admin" position earlier, did you mean for circumstances where an immediate threat was not perceived? Because in the snake drill we were advancing to find a lane to shoot at a target on each side as we wove our way through.

[JHC]

can we get some pics up of various ready positions? This is a really good thread and pics would only make it better,

+1 This is outstanding and a very thought provoking thread.

[Default.mp3]

Three of the big problems with TI is the loss of peripheral vision

The way Petty taught temple index should not have any noticeable loss of peripheral vision, assuming it was done correctly. Without muffs, the palm should be right under the earlobe; with muffs, use the thumb as an index point, by placing it in the rear of the ear pro.

[SouthNarc]

Without muffs, the palm should be right under the earlobe; with muffs, use the thumb as an index point, by placing it in the rear of the ear pro.

Just for clarification are you saying Petty is actually attaching the gun hand to the side of his head?

[Default.mp3]

Just for clarification are you saying Petty is actually attaching the gun hand to the side of his head?

Yes; in fact, Petty stresses that pressure must be kept inward on the head so that the gun doesn't start flopping about whenever you get fatigued or while running.

[SouthNarc]

Yes; in fact, Petty stresses that pressure must be kept inward on the head so that the gun doesn't start flopping about whenever you get fatigued or while running.

Gotcha' thanks.

[Trajan]

Thanks, I didn't like it and dumped memory apparently.

I definitely don't think it should be a go to ready position. I view it as a "I don't want to risk pointing a gun at you because the situation doesn't warrant it" position. Essentially an administrative position.

I used it at AMIS prior in the final evo so I didn't flag SN after he briefed me on the scenario and I had to move around him. I also used it a month or two back when the alarm went off and a family member was right in front of me in the hallway.

Like most things, it's situationally dependent.