Pistols (and pistol mounted optics) I saw this week

[Erick Gelhaus]

Gunsite 350 (Intermediate pistol) not an optic specific course with 17 Students with temps in the 80s, round count @1100 ball plus about 100 frangible.

Canik TP9 SFX 9mm with Holosun 507c
FN 509 MRD 9mm with Trij RMR
Shadow System MR920 9mm Holosun 507c
HK VP9 9mm
Glock 19 9mm
Glock 19 (Gen 5) 9mm
Sig Sauer Scorpion 9mm Holosun 507
Sig M18 9mm Trij RMR
S&W M&P 2.0C 9mm Holosun 508T
S&W M&P 9mm
Sig Sauer P320 Romeo 1 Pro
Canik Mete ST 9mm Holosun 507k
Sig Sauer P320 9mm
S&W M&P CORE 9mm w/out optic
Ed Brown Kobra Carry .45ACP
S&W M&P Shield 9mm
Glock 19 (Gen 5) 9mm w/LTT Gadget

This is becoming the norm, with an almost equal amount of iron sights and pistol-mounted optics in a class.

The only mechanical issues were with the Brown Kobra Carry. It had two trips to the gunsmith. 1st, the hammer was following on day #2. 2nd, the extractor had multiple failures to extract on day #5.

There were no mounting or electronic failures that I was aware of during the week.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Last weekend (9/24 & 25), I taught a pistol-mounted optics instructor development class at Gunsite for several other Gunsite instructors. Two-day class, temps in the 80s, the round count was about 600 rounds.

M&P .45ACP w/ Trij RMR;
Colt 1911 Combat Commander .45ACP w/Crimson Trace *;
Glock 45 9mm w/ Holosun 509T;
M&P 2.0 9mm w/Trijicon RMR;
Glock 45 9mm w/Steiner MPS **;
M&P 2.0 9mm w/Trij SRO;
M&P 1.0 Pro w/Bushnell RXS250 ***;
M&P 1.0 9mm Leupold DPP;
Glock 17 9mm w/Bushnell RXS250;
M&P .40S&W w/Romeo 1 Pro;
M&P 2.0 9mm w/Leupold DPP;
Sig P320 w/Romeo 1 Pro;
Glock 45 9mm w/Holosun SCS;
M&P .45ACP w/(I forgot to write down the optic);

1911/Crimson Trace combo – the elevation adjustment failed during an early drill (“Good Enough”) with less than 40 rounds through the combo in the class;

Steiner MPS – the shooter says he’s got about 4000 rounds through it without issues;

1.0 PRO w/RXS250 – between this class, a week of demoing in another class, and shooting on his own, the shooter put @1400 rounds through it. Then, yesterday, that gun/optic combo was used on a stage during the Gunsite alumni shoot. The competitors fired 2750 rounds through it as well. No issues noted.

[DamonL]

I’m sure you’re fully aware, but, I figured I’d bring this up for any nerds that want to read a 73 page white paper on RDS development. Also designed to provide data for department/agency RDS adoption.

Germaine to the discussion; page 17-21 has the closest thing extant to what you are proposing. Of note, he includes data from graduates of his course on pg 20-21.
https://www.sagedynamics.org/_files/...bb23e912fa.pdf
Aaron Cowan may even have a data dump for you or participate if you started the thread.

He has updated his report to recommend the RMR, 507/508/509, and ACRO. It use to be the RMR and Delta Point.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Just finished a Gunsite #499 advanced pistol class this week. Temps were in the 60s to 80s with rain. The round count was about 1150 ball with another 200+/- of frangible.

S&W M&P .40 (issued duty pistol);
Springfield XDm 9mm w/Trij RMR;
Glock 19 9mm; *
Ed Brown 1911 .45ACP;
S&W M&P 9mm 5” CORE w/Trij RMR (duty gun);
STI Costa Ludus 9mm w/Vortex Venom; *
(Replaced by STI 5” 9mm w/irons and then a Springfield 1911 .45)
Glock 43x w/Trij RMR-CC (duty gun);
Staccato XL 9mm w/Leupold DPP;
Nighthawk Trooper 9mm;
Sig 320 X5 Legion w/Romeo 1 Pro;
Rock Island 1911 9mm; *
Glock 48 9mm;
Atlas 2011 9mm;
Sig 320 X Compact 9mm w/Romeo 1 Pro;
Glock 34 9mm w/Trij SRO;
Sig P226 9mm w/Romeo 1 Pro;

Instructors carried, and demonstrated with an S&W M&P .40SW, two full-size M&P 2.0s with optics & X300U(a) lights, and an M&P Compact with an Acro and a TLR7.

I was quite surprised to see a .40SW pistol in class. But this is that agency’s issued pistol, and that’s what the student (and the lead instructor from the same org) carried;
The Glock 19 shooter was using the 10-round mags legal in his state. Unfortunately, he often loaded them to 11 rounds and suffered second-shot clicks instead of bangs. It was discussed more than once;
The Vortex Venom failed on day #2 with a broken windage adjustment – after being zeroed. The student shifted to two other iron sight guns for the rest of the week;
The Rock Island suffered from repeated released magazines resulting in a second-round clock. The holster caused the problem and was exacerbated by any lateral or rotation pressure on it. The student was aware of the issue.

While I can’t say it won’t change, my plan of having the students shoot grouping, then offsets, then a permission/good enough exercise followed by working the presentation in reverse before starting into occluded optics seems to flow well. And, most importantly, produces good results.

[revchuck38]

Rain in AZ? Unpossible!

That $500 Rock Island 1911 ran okay other than the holster-caused problems? That’s noteworthy.

[HCM]

Rain in AZ? Unpossible!

That $500 Rock Island 1911 ran okay other than the holster-caused problems? That’s noteworthy.

Joe Chambers has good things to say about the RIA 1911s as long as your expectations are realistic.

[Dave Williams]

Props to the guy shooting the .40 duty gun. Keepin it real.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Props to the guy shooting the .40 duty gun. Keepin it real.

He was shooting agency ammo too.

[revchuck38]

He was shooting agency ammo too.

Can't beat the price on that.

[TOTS]

Props to the guy shooting the .40 duty gun. Keepin it real.

He was shooting agency ammo too.

If he got the class paid for by the agency or another = Legend!!