Ditching 5.56 discussion

[Tokarev]

The 277 seems interesting I hope it gains a little more traction .

The CIP is supposed to be looking at 277 sometime soon. If it gets CIP approval that will hopefully mean PPU, S&B and maybe one of the Russian companies will start making ammo. If nothing else it will hopefully lead to some standard pressure tested loading data.

MDWS was working with Cor-Bon at one point to get the cartridge before SAAMI. I don't know what has become of that effort.


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[olstyn]

If legal, I would rather shoot deer with 5.56 and 75 gr bullets. Way more effective. If not something in the 7.62x39 or 30-30 class.

123 grain 7.62x39 is only going about 200 FPS faster than 125 grain .300 BLK - I bet careful handloading could close most of that gap. Even if not, is +/- 200 FPS enough to be a truly significant performance difference when both of them are traveling at > 2000 FPS?

[drjaydvm]

300 blk got me into reloading. After the first few batches of brass made from 5.56, I switched to factory brass and haven't bothered trimming cases since. I toss them when the primer pockets get loose. I load 300 blk on a lee hand press while sitting in front of the TV. I turn it off when I'm measuring powder and seating bullets. I've made 1000s of rounds 50 or 100 at a time. Shooting subs out of a Ruger American ranch is the most fun I've had with a gun in years. My HD gun is an 8.5" pistol with a griffin paladan loaded with the Hornady expanding subs. At house distances the supers don't really require any aim adjustment. Sierra varminter bullets are cheap and accurate. Plus the 110 varminters can be loaded into 30 carbine and feed and shoot well.

[Mike C]

123 grain 7.62x39 is only going about 200 FPS faster than 125 grain .300 BLK - I bet careful handloading could close most of that gap. Even if not, is +/- 200 FPS enough to be a truly significant performance difference when both of them are traveling at > 2000 FPS?

With Barnes 110’s the fastest I saw from my 9” Ballistic Advantage barrel with max of Lil’ Gun was right around 2130-2145. I may have seen really close to 2150 but never much more than that with mine. I don’t recall exactly but it was somewhere right around there. Factory stuff was spot on at 2150 some times a little more or less. I started seeing flattening and occasionally a blown primer at max loads so I stopped where I was at. I wouldn’t try pushing it harder.

[olstyn]

With Barnes 110’s the fastest I saw from my 9” Ballistic Advantage barrel with max of Lil’ Gun was right around 2130-2145. I may have seen really close to 2150 but never much more than that with mine. I don’t recall exactly but it was somewhere right around there. Factory stuff was spot on at 2150 some times a little more or less. I started seeing flattening and occasionally a blown primer at max loads so I stopped where I was at. I wouldn’t try pushing it harder.

That's fair. A longer barrel might get you somewhere, though. I doubt most of the quoted velocities we see for 7.62x39 are with 9" barrels.

[ldunnmobile]

Really surprised there isn’t more 6.8 love. Out of a 16” gun I can shoot 120gr Hornady SST with near identical trajectory to 500 yards as my 5.56 77OTM but with significantly more “punch”. Also 90gr Fusions are awesome out of it for a high velocity rounds that is excellent on game. Plus they are easy to run/not finicky at all.

[LittleLebowski]

Following up, I spoke to the world’s bestest NFA dealer ( @Hansohn Brothers) and he strongly advised not going with a pistol can rated for .300BO supers and instead going with a .30 can that is short and sweet like the Sandman K or the Vox K. This makes sense given my stockpiles of 5.45 and 5.56...

[Kyle Reese]

Following up, I spoke to the world’s bestest NFA dealer ( @Hansohn Brothers) and he strongly advised not going with a pistol can rated for .300BO supers and instead going with a .30 can that is short and sweet like the Sandman K or the Vox K. This makes sense given my stockpiles of 5.45 and 5.56...

You're welcome to shoot my Sandman K any time you like.

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[LittleLebowski]

For me, 5.56 works great and while I briefly owned a DD MK18 in 300BLK, I quickly sold the upper and moved back to 5.56.

As far as terminally, a friend of mine hunts hogs. LOTS of hogs. LOTS AND LOTS. From the ground. For the choppa! From all the places and ways. 300BLK and 5.56 both kill them about the same, he says. The deer I've shot with 5.56 and that my friends have shot with 5.56 die pretty well, too. I've zero complaints.

• 5.56 doesn't suppress very well and has lots of back pressure
  It suppresses fine and any round, suppressed, will have "backpressure".
• .300Blackout (or .300BO) does suppress well and I can go from subs to supers with a mag change, sans fiddling with AGB (adjustable gas block) and/or buffer weight
  I don't fiddle with anything with my 5.56 guns, either, but I also have no need for subsonics. No need for a pistol as heavy and long as my rifle, basically.
• .300BO is WAY easier to reload, got a buddy on 10 reloads of his brass with no trimming
  I don't reload.
• .300BO is cheap to reload with cast and coated bullets. 5.56 is a pain in the ass to reload for
  No it's not. My Dad reloads, and 5.56 is stoopid simple/easy. I used to help him when I was like 9. Even loaded plenty up myself after he set the Dillon up. Obviously cannot use/should not use cast bullets, though.
• there's a plethora of pistol cans that are rated for .300 supers (list to follow) and the HK 3 lug rocks as an attachment method
  I'm not familiar with the HK 3-Lug method, why is it so awesome?
• 5.56 is not legal for hunting in my state
  That sucks, and I can understand your sentiments about wanting a different caliber, due to this.

Jeez, talk about a formatting and quote ninja . I’ll try to respond to your stuff in red, forgive me if I can’t keep.

• I’m well aware that all rounds have backpressure, but the difference between the two is noticeable. As in I don’t notice it at allwith my suppressed .300BO guns, but it’s enough of a problem with my suppressed 5.56 guns that I have to buy AR Gas Vents, fuck with buffer weights, buy adjustable gas blocks, and RTV the charging handles.
• My AR pistols are lighter than 16” rifles.
• Reloading for the .300BO is very rewarding, especially when I can work up a load and test it quietly with about twenty steps out my back door.
• As a father of two school age children, my time is very valuable. If I can reload .300BO without trimming, I save time. Furthermore, being able to use cast bullets saves me a LOT of money. Maybe I suck as a reloader, oh well.
• The advantages of a 3-lug are no indexing the muzzle device, cheap(er) muzzle devices, no backing off of the muzzle device, extremely easy mount and unmount, the mount rarely if ever needs cleaning, and hardly ever get stuck.

[LittleLebowski]

You're welcome to shoot my Sandman K any time you like.

Yeah, let’s set up a time to try it in my backyard with subs and then go meet that bald fellow for beer.