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Thread: Massad Ayoob: Three reasons why you need to carry extra ammo and magazines

  1. #81
    Whether one does or does not carry a spare magazine is their choice. It’s certainly not a disadvantage.

    Revolvers aren’t panaceas or hardware solutions for entangled fights and a cylinder can be locked into inoperability with a strong grip.

    The problem is what it is and gun types, support equipment, and holster type or location all have pros and cons. There isn’t a “get” without a “give”.

  2. #82
    For the competitive shooters, it is very easy to get into the minutia of USPSA, and lose sight that improving and maintaining defensive skills is the original reason most of us got into competing.

    After almost losing my friend the other night, my wife and I agreed to drag out our carry guns to finish off each practice session.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  3. #83
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    Not going to write a long piece. I find Mas more convincing from my personal experience of threats. If I'm in the tail of distribution, that's what I'm going with. I don't find the carry inconvenient with the other gear. You might have 2500 videos of fewer shots. So you also might find many more thousands of no shots being fired DGUs in videos. Which do you go with, having ammo or not?

  4. #84
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    Odds v. Stakes- Tom Givens

    Statistics are of little comfort when you are the notable exception-Lt. Col Jeff Cooper (as conveyed to me by multiple 1970s-80's Gunsite grads)

    Those two ditties, my occupation and 10s of thousands of rounds thru G19 or bigger pistols has me defaulting 99% of the time to a double stack Glock as that is simply what I shoot best and have the most rounds thru. Recent flirtations with an RDS are only enforcing that view.

    Presuming a purpose built holster on a purpose built belt, carrying one extra mag in a purpose built mag pouch seems a pretty easy lift to me.

    Having said that, what used to be a spot for mag 2 ( an initial holdover from 1911 days I am sure) should probably be a spot for TQ1 in lieu of mag 2.
    I am not your attorney. I am not giving legal advice. Any and all opinions expressed are personal and my own and are not those of any employer-past, present or future.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    After almost losing my friend the other night, my wife and I agreed to drag out our carry guns to finish off each practice session.
    The reports of thy friend's death are greatly exaggerated.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  6. #86
    Frequent DG Adventurer fatdog's Avatar
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    May 2016
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    Rural Central Alabama
    Of Mas three arguments, I find the last one the most compelling. But that is because I have 4 trips through ECQC dating back to 2004, and the lost magazine in the FUT resulting in a single shot pistol has happened to me personally once, and I saw it happen to a classmate once, all with a G17 FX gun. I KNOW it is a real consideration now and I know how it can and will in some cases happen.

    If I ever had to access my gun in a defensive situation, I hope very much it is away from contact distance, but my pre-2004 delusional self about criminal encounters NOT getting physical and having to fight in a FUT died that year in a grassy field in Georgia.

  7. #87
    Member feudist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerrero View Post
    John from Active Self Protection has an interesting rebuttal:

    Some well taken points there. I've watched his channel for years and consider it an invaluable resource. I know a lot of people despise him, for reasons(). I don't agree with all his observations in all his videos, but it's hard to argue with his access and perspective. I read the "20.000 gunfights" summary and found nothing surprising in it. Basically, the most likely things to happen are the things that happened, and the least likely events happened extremely infrequently or not at all.
    Over 2 decades ago, John Farnam (DTI Quips 12/20/2000)discussed the NYPD SOP-9 database meta analysis, where the data was correctly broken down to exclude suicides, dog shootings and N.D. events. It also tracked the multiyear difference that the semiauto transition made in the number of shots fired. The average was found to be 8 with the semis and 4 with revolvers. Remember that this was 9mm ball and .38 semiwadcutter ammo being used to produce 15% hit rates..
    Tom Aveni dove deeper into that database (1990-2000)and found that the mean number of shots fired was 5.2. The year 2000 had the highest number of rounds in a gunfight: 16.8 in a multi officer involved shooting, with the lowest hit % of 9, and the mean for the year was 6.9. "Bunch firing" is an observed phenomenon in OIS involving multiple officers, and produces very high atypical round counts. Re: Amadou Diallo.
    Granted, there are known problems with SOP-9 that can't be corrected for, but it is still the only thing of it's kind with that depth of recorded information.
    As BehindBlueEyes has pointed out, there can be differences in OIS , targeted shootings and random predatory street assaults. The first 2 categories tend to produce higher volumes of fire against more determined attackers, whilst the typical street crook isn't looking for a fight.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    A very good friend, was approached at 9pm by two guys, when he was fueling at the gas station. He had his 365 with a dot and ten round magazine, but no spare. I told him he needs to roll heavier -- help convince him. I am almost always with my wife, who also has a pistol and spare mag.
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    For the competitive shooters, it is very easy to get into the minutia of USPSA, and lose sight that improving and maintaining defensive skills is the original reason most of us got into competing.

    After almost losing my friend the other night, my wife and I agreed to drag out our carry guns to finish off each practice session.
    I'm not sure that I got the gist of the story. I took it to mean that two guys approached him and perhaps asked him for money, etc. Was there actually a robbery or carjacking attempt?
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

  9. #89
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    Not everything is a shooting problem. Some things are a software problem. I’d rather have the hardware to back up the software. There’s pros and cons to the hardware. But more available choices the better. At least I think that is mas point.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Lehr View Post
    I'm not sure that I got the gist of the story. I took it to mean that two guys approached him and perhaps asked him for money, etc. Was there actually a robbery or carjacking attempt?
    No. GJM is mildly trolling me. It was an opportunistic victim check. One guy approached and started to talk confrontational nonsense. Second guy was at a distance and didn't try to flank or engage in any way. The first guy gtfo'd after being met with a confident and unfrightened verbal and nonverbal response. I didn't feel bad about not having a spare mag but did feel stupid about not having my sports sandals buckled.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

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