Dogs killing people

[Coyotesfan97]

@Coyotesfan97

What's the most effective technique for saving oneself if the cavalry is not available?

If I could I’d grab it under the throat and try to choke it off or destroy its trachea if I didn’t have any weapons on me.

If it was a dog with a chain collar you might be able to choke it off with that.

For P-F probably a knife or a gun

The scary dogs are the ones that either “typewriter” where they release and bite again at a different spot or the ones that just bite, release, bite again at a different area. That’s how you get mauled. But a dog with a lot of bite pressure is doing a lot of damage too especially if they’re chewing as they bite.

I’m used to dogs that bite and hold one spot. They usually will adjust the bite to drive deeper in the mouth but they’re biting and holding on.

[41magfan]

@Coyotesfan97

What's the most effective technique for saving oneself if the cavalry is not available?

This is assuming I can't get a gun or knife into play effectively;

Because I've seen this done effectively, my plan is to get on top of the dog and get him under me in hopes of pinning him to the ground. Should I not be able to deploy any weapons, I'm hoping that might mitigate the injuries resulting from the "pulling/tearing" that inevitably takes place. I think most dogs don't like being on their backs or not having their feet under them, so that (rightly or wrongly) is playing into my plans.

I've done enough bite work with K-9 handlers to know what is feels like to have 100 lb GSD on my arm, but I'm less optimistic about pulling that off with a much bigger and stronger animal.

I don't have an unnatural fear of dogs but I consider them as much - if not more - of a threat than humans. The presence of a gun has great potential to mitigate a threat from a thug, but a dog could care less what's in my hand. I've had enough close calls that I'm somewhat surprised that I haven't shot one yet because I've taken the slack out of the trigger on several occasions.

What's your thinking on the subject?

[blues]

********deleted*******



I ask because my experience to date is limited to having pointed firearms at dogs, (on and off the job), without having had to shoot them...though coming close, very close.

Two worst cases were a pair of Rotties charging me and my Weimaraner (in my avatar picture)...who stopped abruptly before I loosed rounds while yelling commands to stop.

And once on SRT where a pit was menacing one of my guys and the bad guy (we were serving the warrant on) called off the dog before I shot it with a rifle out in the Everglades.

Other than incidents like those, I've only hit dogs with a stick or with kicks and blows.

Figured our canine officers would have more insights than my experience has provided.

[Caballoflaco]

I just saw this from Fox News on Facebook.

Attachment 93480
Video of Woman fighting off rabid fox.

Just think, before the rabies vaccine that attack was an almost guaranteed death sentence for that lady in anywhere from a few weeks to a few months.

[blues]

I guess pepper spray would also be viable, but I've not tested it on a dog yet.

[Coyotesfan97]

Other than incidents like those, I've only hit dogs with a stick or with kicks and blows.

Figured our canine officers would have more insights than my experience has provided.

I guess pepper spray would also be viable, but I've not tested it on a dog yet.

33 years and somehow I managed never having to shoot a dog. But there was several close calls. The closest I’ve been was having an angry pit Bull going after my partner in the middle of a group of Officers with me holding the leash tight and turning my partner to avoid him. I briefly considered it but decided I was t going to risk a missed shot. If it’d be just me, my dog, and the Pit there would’ve been a dead Pit that morning.

I’ve avoided a lot of dog incidents with a harsh word and a flashlight. I’d yell PFUI(Dutch for shame) and put a strong flashlight beam in the dogs eyes. It worked a lot. You could yell no or whatever word as long as it’s a sharp, harsh command. It’s the voice tone that’s needed. Oh and a Maglite to the head or back usually gets a dog’s attention.

A walking stick or a cane can turn dogs even without using them as an impact tool. The best I ever saw was a patrol guy who’d been an animal control officer. He used a 26” ASP to turn and make a dog avoid him. He never used it to strike but to push. I complimented him afterwards and he just laughed and said dogs don’t like sticks. I know from using a pole noose you have one shot of getting the noose over the dogs head. If you miss he knows the game is up and will avoid the pole making it a lot harder.

I’ve used OC on dogs. It’s hit and miss. It doesn’t effect them like humans. I think they’re more scared of the cloud then what’s in it. We used fire extinguishers with pretty good results on dogs. Our patrol dogs are trained to work in chemical agents.

From SWAT and OTJ experiences Dogs don’t like flash bangs and they don’t like Tasers. I’ve seen several pit bulls get tased and they ran off like their ass was on fire and their tail was catching. They hit the end of the wires and were gone. Beanbags work well.

[blues]

33 years and somehow I managed never having to shoot a dog. But there was several close calls. The closest I’ve been was having an angry pit Bull going after my partner in the middle of a group of Officers with me holding the leash tight and turning my partner to avoid him. I briefly considered it but decided I was t going to risk a missed shot. If it’d be just me, my dog, and the Pit there would’ve been a dead Pit that morning.

I’ve avoided a lot of dog incidents with a harsh word and a flashlight. I’d yell PFUI(Dutch for shame) and put a strong flashlight beam in the dogs eyes. It worked a lot. You could yell no or whatever word as long as it’s a sharp, harsh command. It’s the voice tone that’s needed. Oh and a Maglite to the head or back usually gets a dog’s attention.

A walking stick or a cane can turn dogs even without using them as an impact tool. The best I ever saw was a patrol guy who’d been an animal control officer. He used a 26” ASP to turn and make a dog avoid him. He never used it to strike but to push. I complimented him afterwards and he just laughed and said dogs don’t like sticks. I know from using a pole noose you have one shot of getting the noose over the dogs head. If you miss he knows the game is up and will avoid the pole making it a lot harder.

I’ve used OC on dogs. It’s hit and miss. It doesn’t effect them like humans. I think they’re more scared of the cloud then what’s in it. We used fire extinguishers with pretty good results on dogs. Our patrol dogs are trained to work in chemical agents.

From SWAT and OTJ experiences Dogs don’t like flash bangs and they don’t like Tasers. I’ve seen several pit bulls get tased and they ran off like their ass was on fire and their tail was catching. They hit the end of the wires and were gone. Beanbags work well.

Yep, yep and yep. My experience as well.

I saw a Pit try to climb the side of a house when we were doing a team entry on a home and launched a bang as we breached the door.

I notice as well that some dogs will run when they see you bend down to pick up a rock. (Obviously, they're not hardened dogs...just wiseasses running in a small pack.)

[BehindBlueI's]

I guess pepper spray would also be viable, but I've not tested it on a dog yet.

I've not had good luck with OC/CS for dogs when I used to bicycle in the country side with a lot of loose dogs. They didn't react much different than water in the face, but with more paw rubbing at the muzzle afterward. That was pepper spray for people, though, not the ones designed for dogs. I did find air horns like for boating emergencies worked well to stop them from chasing me. Never had to try it vs a bite in progress. Others have reported better success, so I maybe I just had shit spray.

[Coyotesfan97]

I've not had good luck with OC/CS for dogs when I used to bicycle in the country side with a lot of loose dogs. They didn't react much different than water in the face, but with more paw rubbing at the muzzle afterward. That was pepper spray for people, though, not the ones designed for dogs. I did find air horns like for boating emergencies worked well to stop them from chasing me. Never had to try it vs a bite in progress. Others have reported better success, so I maybe I just had shit spray.

Depending on the breed and if they’re in prey drive they’ll just ignore it generally. I’ve seen training videos of GSDs and Mals in training taking full face sprays then being sent on successful searches with a bite.

[Borderland]

I guess pepper spray would also be viable, but I've not tested it on a dog yet.

I think it works. Dogs have a highly sensitive olfactory system. I've raised several dogs to hunt upland birds and their noses are quite amazing. I once had a buddy plant a bird he had shot a few hours previous and ask him to plant it to see if my dog could find it. We were at least 1000' from from the location and not visible to my buddy when he planted the dead bird. I know my dog had no idea where that bird was. We doubled back on the plant and she found it with her nose. That wasn't my best dog for locating birds either. I'm not sure that my dog didn't associate the scent from his vest to locate the bird. They have their ways.

Here's a guy trolling for dogs on his bike.

https://youtu.be/cpgXW5OpAUQ


They can learn to avoid runners and bicyclist with an air horn. Commands, staffs and the last resort, pepper spray. Pepper spray will definitely shut most dogs down.

But then there's the dog that can't stay away from porcupines. Not sure what the answer is there.