Best Hard-Use AR15s in 2022?

[Jim Watson]

No idea. you'll have to ask HK.

Well, I did, sort of. Their www advert says

We use the same grade steel used in making cannon barrels — for its rifle barrels. Using the famous HK cold hammer forging process, this advanced technology manufacturing produces a barrel that provides superior accuracy and long service life. It is also moderately “swagged” with a slightly smaller internal diameter at the muzzle end than the chamber end. This has a positive effect on bullet accuracy and velocity and the thick, heavy contour MR series barrels also contributes to its precision.

A thread on AR15.com says they get the taper by using a tapered mandrel in the hammer forge. One post said only the forward end of the mandrel is tapered, so it is more a choke. The old time slug gun and schuetzen rifle makers knew the difference and made barrels to suit. High end air rifles have choked barrels to hold pressure a smidgen.

[Wake27]

The real answer is Geissele with a Colt Barrel. Hard to argue against a Colt Trooper as a factory gun. I like DD's flared magwells. I've had a 6920 that was a little tight in the magwell region.

Noveske's been dead since Johnny passed.
BCM is good overall, but I've found it hard to get complete guns in the configuration I wanted from them, always out of stock.
Centurion is the same as BCM. Good product, but tough to get.
Daniel Defense jumped the shark about 10 years ago. I'm sure their guns still work ok, but pricing is high and some of their features are not my preference.

I think a Geissele Duty Rifle is tough to argue against for what you get; especially if purchased on one of their holiday deals.

But whatever gun you get, put a Colt barrel (preferably a SOCOM) in it and a majority of your problems will disappear.

Really defeats the whole purpose of buying a complete gun/upper if you have to replace literally the heart of it. BCM uppers are available all day long in multiple configs and their most popular ones were somewhat consistent even in the heart of the panic. Same with their lowers, I think they actually produce more of each with the intent of selling separate vs complete guns.


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[Wake27]

Even though I've assembled all 3 of my ARs from parts, I still recommend complete ARs to people new to the community. This is the typical advice I give.

Budget: Aero > PSA Premium
Mid-Tier: BCM/Colt/FN
Fancy: Daniel Defense

That being said, a friend recently went for an IWI ZION-15 on my recommendation for his budget after looking at Aero options. I feel like this was a better purchase than a new Colt but maybe not as good as a BCM.

Anything above $1,300 for a bare bones AR is not something I'm ever going to recommend for a 1st/only rifle unless they just have "fancy" budget. Much more value in having funds for 1,000 rounds of ammo to practice with.

You’re the only one I know of that would call DD “fancy.” Solid workhorses but fancy isn’t really accurate IMO. They do all of the standard barrel and bolt really well, but nothing fancy.


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[Wake27]

Kyle DeFoor runs BCM guns. Like Pat he has a relationship with BCM, but like Pat I'm confident he would not continue that relationship if they didn't perform.

More significant is U.S. CBP, which includes the U.S. Border Patrol using BCM rifles and uppers for the past several years. CBP is the largest law enforcement agency in North America and the USBP in particular actually uses / carries carbines more than anyone in the U.S. outside DOD. USBP service = "hard use."

One correction. BCM was never the "top spot" as in THE best thing available vs KAC or LMT. What made BCM popular was at the time, it was the only option that actually was "just as good" as Colt, but also offered more modern / desirable configurations and had better availability. Historically, availability of Colts was an issue. They've had periods of time where they were Colt's were unavailable due to focus on GOV contract fulfilment (legitimate) or Colt playing games with sales to civilians.

I'm an "uncle Pat" alumni but for cultural and logistical reasons, "high round count carbine classes" simply are not the "thing" they used to be.

I’m personally a bit past the glory days of high round count celebrity training, as I think much of the community is, but AFAIK, most of the “big names” are still running BCM. I’m not aware of any of the original BCM Gunfighters that don’t still use them. BCM’s mfg site still lists all 11 that I remember seeing like a decade ago. Green Ops is pretty heavy into SOLGW AFAIK. Chuck is too now, last I checked. Jason from Redback One has been KAC for a long time. I shot with JDC but have no idea what they use.

I don’t know who else is considered in that realm.


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[SwampDweller]

I'm an "uncle Pat" alumni but for cultural and logistical reasons, "high round count carbine classes" simply are not the "thing" they used to be.

What do you mean by this?

[HCM]

What do you mean by this?

I trained with Pat Rogers when my agency was moving en-mass from shotguns to carbines, and I was looking for better carbine TTPs than the third rate 1990s bullshit my agency was pushing at the time.

However, that was 15 years ago. The high round count carbine class trend played itself out a few years ago. What you are asking for doesn't exist anymore.

The GWOT is over, as is the novelty of the AWB sunset, carbines have replaced shotguns as the common LE long gun, ammo is expensive and Magpul Dynamics videos are now collector's items.

Multi day, high round count classes stopped filling up so instructors stopped offering them. Most people realized their actual primary weapon in the U.S. is the pistol and the hard core LARPers have moved on to low light / NVG classes.

The current open enrollment carbine class market is mostly 1 day classes or focused on longer ranges (SPR/DMR / LPVO).

[SwampDweller]

I trained with Pat Rogers when my agency was moving en-mass from shotguns to carbines, and I was looking for better carbine TTPs than the third rate 1990s bullshit my agency was pushing at the time.

However, that was 15 years ago. The high round count carbine class trend played itself out a few years ago. What you are asking for doesn't exist anymore.

The GWOT is over, as is the novelty of the AWB sunset, carbines have replaced shotguns as the common LE long gun, ammo is expensive and Magpul Dynamics videos are now collector's items.

Multi day, high round count classes stopped filling up so instructors stopped offering them. Most people realized their actual primary weapon in the U.S. is the pistol and the hard core LARPers have moved on to low light / NVG classes.

The current open enrollment carbine class market is mostly 1 day classes or focused on longer ranges (SPR/DMR / LPVO).

I see. Would you happen to know the closest thing to those "old school" classes/instructors?

[rob_s]

I trained with Pat Rogers when my agency was moving en-mass from shotguns to carbines, and I was looking for better carbine TTPs than the third rate 1990s bullshit my agency was pushing at the time.

However, that was 15 years ago. The high round count carbine class trend played itself out a few years ago. What you are asking for doesn't exist anymore.

The GWOT is over, as is the novelty of the AWB sunset, carbines have replaced shotguns as the common LE long gun, ammo is expensive and Magpul Dynamics videos are now collector's items.

Multi day, high round count classes stopped filling up so instructors stopped offering them. Most people realized their actual primary weapon in the U.S. is the pistol and the hard core LARPers have moved on to low light / NVG classes.

The current open enrollment carbine class market is mostly 1 day classes or focused on longer ranges (SPR/DMR / LPVO).

Pretty much mirrors my impression as well.

I was honestly unsure if I had just stopped following all the gun celebrities and so was just not aware of the larping classes being offered today, or if they had actually died out.

[rob_s]

I see. Would you happen to know the closest thing to those "old school" classes/instructors?

Not a high round count blaster course, but if you’re interest ped in a rifleman’s course with a carbine, seek out Randy Cain.
https://www.guntactics.com/

[SwampDweller]

Not a high round count blaster course, but if you’re interest ped in a rifleman’s course with a carbine, seek out Randy Cain.
https://www.guntactics.com/

Thank you.