US Army fields SIG M17 and M18 pistols

[BillSWPA]

As a tax payer shouldn't you be happy that the Government didn't waste several hundred million additional dollars buying a weapons system that was not as technically compliant with the contract requirements?
I'm not sure why you refuse to believe that the P320 issue a formidable weapon. It literally would have been Government waste, fraud, and abuse to award to Glock. SIG offered the best value, not to be confused with the lowest bid.

Since I have been a business owner for over 10 years, I have to write the checks, making the impact felt much more acutely. I would have much less problem writing checks for stuff that works like it is supposed to work than for this nonsense. It is NEVER cheaper to get something that doesn’t quite work the way it should and which will need repair, upgrade, or replacement.

[JHC]

As a tax payer shouldn't you be happy that the Government didn't waste several hundred million additional dollars buying a weapons system that was not as technically compliant with the contract requirements?
I'm not sure why you refuse to believe that the P320 issue a formidable weapon. It literally would have been Government waste, fraud, and abuse to award to Glock. SIG offered the best value, not to be confused with the lowest bid.

As a tax payer, I wish they'd paid to cry once with a robust combat proven design that would be very economical over the life of the fleet. That hyper-complicated FCU is taking a flyer. And I'm alarmed by reports I've received in confidence of it getting ATE UP from find sand and silt. Some things they can fix. I don't know if they can fix that.

[Tokarev]

That hyper-complicated FCU is taking a flyer.

Why do you say the FCU is "hyper-complicated?"

It isn't as mechanically simple as the Glock but it isn't hard to get apart and back together. And, depending on what part(s) needs changed, the entire chassis doesn't need to be taken apart.

[JHC]

Why do you say the FCU is "hyper-complicated?"

It isn't as mechanically simple as the Glock but it isn't hard to get apart and back together. And, depending on what part(s) needs changed, the entire chassis doesn't need to be taken apart.

I meant the serial numbered metal compartment with the tiny bits. This is going to be beyond operator level disassembly I'm thinking. My alarm which I mentioned was of an anecdote of a gun that got forcefully driven into silt by accident during actual use and no about of flushing could get the gun running again.

That's what I meant by the "flyer" the Army has taken about this innovative design. A question of how it performs when driven into the muck by 240 lbs of falling trooper with armor, ruck, etc. or waded with for hours. Compared to combat proven designs that have BTDT and could be field stripped, flushed out, etc.

It's a great shooting pistol, no doubt. Time will tell about the rest.

[Texaspoff]

I am not sure what really happened within the inner workings of how the MHS program went down, but some where in the middle of all the quoted stats, and arguments for this and that or the other lies the truth. I like the 320, and have carried it on duty in crappy weather in fact through Harvey and it was in a fairly harsh environment from an LE standpoint. I can tell you I cleaned it as soon as the opportunity arose. Personally, I wasn't 100% if it would have performed flawlessly under those condition, and I didn't get the opportunity to try it at the time for obvious reasons.

With all that said, I have since gone back to my glock, which FWIW has been through mud and deep water and other such contaminates while carrying them on duty over the last 20 years at one time or another. I can honestly say I never once worried about the glock ability to perform under those conditions.

I feel like under normal conditions the 320 and the glock perform equally. Under harsh or extreme conditions, the 320 hasn't proven itself yet, and that gives me pause.

Now I'm not here to bash, but in my own experience over the years, I trust glocks to work under harsh conditions, cause I have seen them do it. I can't say the same for the 320, and that is something the platform will develop with time.

IMO if they were dead set on replacing the M9, there were not necessarily better than the 320, but at least equal and more proven designs out there they could have gone with.

Of course this is just my opinion and you know what they say about those...

TXPO

[Tokarev]

I meant the serial numbered metal compartment with the tiny bits. This is going to be beyond operator level disassembly I'm thinking. My alarm which I mentioned was of an anecdote of a gun that got forcefully driven into silt by accident during actual use and no about of flushing could get the gun running again.

That's what I meant by the "flyer" the Army has taken about this innovative design. A question of how it performs when driven into the muck by 240 lbs of falling trooper with armor, ruck, etc. or waded with for hours. Compared to combat proven designs that have BTDT and could be field stripped, flushed out, etc.

It's a great shooting pistol, no doubt. Time will tell about the rest.

Yes. The chassis comes out easily and could be removed so that it could be hosed out with Gun Scrubber or swished around in a bucket of water or something if it was full of dirt or sand.

With that said, removing the chassis may be outside the scope of authorized maintenance for most users. But the same can be said for many pistols. How many departments or agencies allow the user to detail strip an M9, Glock, P2000, VP9, M16, etc?

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[LSP552]

Yes. The chassis comes out easily and could be removed so that it could be hosed out with Gun Scrubber or swished around in a bucket of water or something if it was full of dirt or sand.

With that said, removing the chassis may be outside the scope of authorized maintenance for most users. But the same can be said for many pistols. How many departments or agencies allow the user to detail strip an M9, Glock, P2000, VP9, M16, etc?

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I think the need to detail strip isn’t necessarily the same for all pistols. Does anyone believes that the MHS conducted enough tests in all conditions to truly determine that performance? Set real world performance standards, test to that exact standard and then select Best Value for the government among the competition that passed the testing.


Just my 2 cents.

One thing that really hasn’t been discussed is DOD’s real emphasis on speeding up critical acquisitions. Sometimes things really do take way too long. There are ways to speed up Acquisition that doesn’t compromise the selection. I’m completely ignorant about the MHS, I’m just talking generalities here.

[JHC]

Yes. The chassis comes out easily and could be removed so that it could be hosed out with Gun Scrubber or swished around in a bucket of water or something if it was full of dirt or sand.

With that said, removing the chassis may be outside the scope of authorized maintenance for most users. But the same can be said for many pistols. How many departments or agencies allow the user to detail strip an M9, Glock, P2000, VP9, M16, etc?

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That apparently could not get the mechanism cleared. Hey, I could be all wet. They said the Abrams turbines couldn't run in a desert once too.

[dpadams6]

Yes. The chassis comes out easily and could be removed so that it could be hosed out with Gun Scrubber or swished around in a bucket of water or something if it was full of dirt or sand.

With that said, removing the chassis may be outside the scope of authorized maintenance for most users. But the same can be said for many pistols. How many departments or agencies allow the user to detail strip an M9, Glock, P2000, VP9, M16, etc?

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Yeah, actually, taking out the whole fcu as a whole, hosing it down and re-inserting, could be easier then trying to clean out the interior of a muddy, dirty Glock.

[Tokarev]

A quick article/video about the USMC's pistols:

https://www.tactical-life.com/news/m...ig-m18-pistol/