Acquiring a grip is different than shifting a grip.Originally Posted by JimCunn
There are a lot of other factors involved that differentiate, but that is the most basic difference: they are completely separate actions. One is moving the empty hand to the instrument, acquiring a grip, and then moving it through space. The other is just moving it through space, starting with it in hand, grip already acquired.
"It was the fuck aroundest of times, it was the find outest of times."- 45dotACP
and if you lose a match in tennis, you're not dead, and have the ability to try again differently next time.
All your gunfight matches must be perfect to continue playing
In the context of pocket carry, the contours of a DAO snub better facilitate quickly drawing it from a pocket, even a deep one, with less risk if snagging.
I will disagree, especially with my new LCP Max. It is a very slick gun. Pistols today are definitely past the KelTec PF9 and Kahr pistols.
And this is from a die hard J-frame fan…
LoL…
That's subjective but I think is generally a truth.
I disagree with the general statement that snubs are superior for ECQ deployment. The only advantage a snub has over an auto pistol is that they are usually much harder to leverage out of the defender's hand and that's just because there isn't much to grab on to. Ostensibly a small auto like an LCP has the same advantage.
This. In tennis, the racquet is already in your hand so you have some understanding and control of its orientation at all times. It’s much easier to then shift the orientation of the racquet in your hand when you need to. If you’re responding to a deadly force threat before you have a grip established on the gun, then you have to establish a grip before you can draw the gun. You might have to do that very quickly without missing the grip and without fumbling, under a great deal of stress, or you could die or be seriously injured, or the same could happen to a loved one. If the gun isn’t consistently oriented in the position you’re drawing it from, you’ll eat up precious time getting the gun into your hand. An even worse possibility is you end up shooting yourself while you try to get the gun in your hand and now you’re starting your gunfight not only at an initiative deficit, but also with a gunshot wound.
If you can guarantee you’ll always be able to see and identify the threat and respond with enough time to maneuver the gun around in your pocket and establish a grip before anything really bad happens, then I guess it doesn’t matter whether or not the gun is in a consistent orientation. That doesn’t sound realistic to me. I understand that there’s a chance I might not be able to establish my master grip in advance of the situation because I’m not infallible. I’d rather put as much of the situation in my favor in advance as I can so if I could guarantee the gun is in the correct orientation at all times with something as simple as a pocket holster, I’d do that.
My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.
Sorry if I missed something but is your position above only in reference to drawing and retention? Does compromised grip and contact shots (both functional issues) factor in?
Autos are generally more finicky when it comes running a compromised grip. Snubs have less grip to hold onto. There's no free lunch. The objective doctrinally that I teach, is to use wrestling and BJJ to control position so one can attain the proper grip. It's really not an ECQ shooting problem so much as it is a grappling problem with a gun.
Contact shots are really not something I advocate for. The better practice is to retract the pistol back to a retention position to fire, not jam the gun into someone's body. We call that "floating the gun" and usually it makes a weapons retention problem worse when people do it. I've seen plenty of people jam a snub into someone to make a contact shot and the adversary fights back by grabbing the pistol and binding the cylinder. Dead gun just like an auto pistol out of battery.
I keep a cache' of about 200 rounds or so of 38 sim in my work bag for anyone that wants to run a snub in an evolution and I'm probably one of the few guys that actually has that ammo for students to use in their guns. Based on my observations over 21 years of running evolutions with 38 sim rounds in those guns and realistically that's probably....150 of them?...I stand by what I said. @Totem Polar ran one in one of his ECQCs at one point.
Here's Rhett running a snub from deep Enigma carry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lu4Dr5M_hY
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