I found this article interesting. I experience chronic pain issues from MA training (sustained almost 40 years ago); this article resonated regarding the potential long-term costs of certain practices.
https://combatsportslaw.com/2019/01/...-brain-injury/
Moderator please feel free to move if this is the wrong sub-forum.
I don't know enough about the medical side of hypoxic ischemic brain injury noted there. It's a case study of one patient with established CTE/head trauma in addition to other aspects of MMA training, like grappling. I suppose this reinforces the benefits of "Tap early and tap often" vs pushing to the point of unconsciousness when choked.Originally Posted by Gray01
Tap and respect the tap.
Our gym has always put a big emphasis on protecting yourself and your training partner.
It's on both people to recognize when the choke is inevitable and tap if you're the chokee or transition to something else if you're the choker.
There's no need to keep fighting (or to keep sinking it) once both of you (or even just one of you) knows it's a done deal.
Usually once I've slipped under the chin I pause the squeeze and give them a second to tap, if they don't I will usually release the choke and just transition to an armbar or something else.
Last edited by JodyH; 02-13-2019 at 06:30 PM.
"For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
-- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --
I almost got chocked out more than once during training.....I tapped. It's not worth getting hurt. I even tapped when I was not losing, but the other guy clearly had significantly more stamina than me. Didn't want to get hurt or puke on him.
No I worry more about herpes gladiatorum than I do about more serious physical injuries.
Last edited by TheNewbie; 02-13-2019 at 07:40 PM.
I'd like to get a physician's take on HI-BI before we start making sweeping generalizations about the dangers of chokes.
Physicians opinion or not, I do everything I can to avoid going unconscious from chokes or strikes.
It just makes sense that messing with the brain like that is bad for you.
"For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
-- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --
We can make a few generalizations, based on at least 137 years of Judo practice, if not centuries of ju-jutsu/ju-jitsu/related training. I'm a not saying that chokes aren't extremely dangerous; they're dangerous as hell (right?), but there is a long and reasonably successful tradition of mitigating those dangers. I think that article is referring to pro MMA competition fighting, which is a whole different animal from training. JMO, OMMV, etc.
Civility is not a tactic or a sentiment. It is the determined choice of trust over cynicism, of community over chaos.
-George W. Bush
The thing that concerns me is the usage of concussive and subconcussive blows the patient experienced in MMA then the interlacing of being choked unconscious.
" The authors opined that the CTE was likely caused from the repetitive concussive and sub-concussive blows the patient experienced in MMA noting that “Our patient exhibited symptoms of CTE secondary to repetitive sub-concussive brain trauma received from both training and competitions.”"
MMA gyms put on gloves and head gear and practice punching/kicking, etc. I'll catch an elbow (light non-bruising) or bump here and there in Jiu Jitsu.
But, I'm not getting blows to the head. Or anywhere really. We don't train striking.
This is also *ONE* patient - I'm not a medical professional. However, my wife is and I know there'd be a pregnant pause with most medical professionals when they say "a study was performed and these are the results... the population consists of one patient" where they'd legitimately question your findings. Justifiably so in my untrained opinion - it's a sample size of one.
MMA does have elements of Jiu Jitsu in it for certain. However, Jiu Jitsu doesn't have elements of MMA. Heck, I don't start standing up a lot because sweeping someone's leg and driving them to the ground or vice versa leads to shoulder injuries and other pains.
I think there's a critical distinction there.
I legitimately thought about trying to find a Muay Thai or Kick boxing gym in the area just to work striking - I also decided to not to pursue it because I didn't want to deal with concussions.
Are there concerns here? Potentially. Do I question the credibility of the study? Absolutely.
ETA:
Gray01, what kind of training in particular did you suffer your injury - if you don't mind my asking? Also, what kind of injury?
Last edited by BWT; 02-13-2019 at 09:35 PM.
God Bless,
Brandon
40 years ago, shoulder; Aikido with something similar to what you alluded to as a "drive to the ground" and an improper fall on my part.
Now I am just old and blinking hurts.
I practiced choke holds extensively from 30-43 an I a ust fyn, no prblms has been noted in an xstemsiv sef-analsis.
Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?
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