What handgun should I get?

[gtmtnbiker98]

I just cannot get over how Glock still receives a "pass" given their current issues. I mean it takes a third party company to 'fix' their extraction woes, but yet, they still receive the Gold Standard stamp of approval? Talk about being "Sheeple." Oh, it's a Glock, we forgive, "lets play magical parts swap and hope this cures the cuts and bruises on my forehead." I don't get it.

In all the training classes I've attended over the last three years, the main platform I have seen fail is the Glock. In one class, out of four Glocks, I witnessed three go down. But we still give them a "pass." The Kool Aid must be good.

[JodyH]

I really like Glocks.
I recommend Glocks to my CCW students all the time.
2nd and 3rd Gen Glocks in 9mm.
There is no way I'd choose a 4th Gen Glock over a P-series H&K.
There is no way I'd sell my 2nd Gen 17, and I'd be 100% comfortable strapping it on for daily carry tomorrow.

As to M&P's, I still don't have any faith in S&W.
I take that back.
I have complete faith in S&W to take a good gun and screw it up while trying to save $0.01 per unit.

[JonInWA]

I'm one "sheeple" (obviously) that does continue to endorse Glocks. Not blindly; I have a 10/11/11 production, SDA- prefix serial Gen 3 that I won in a GSSF competition; immediately upon its arrival, I replaced the MIM/dip extractor with a NOS cast LCI extractor, and my sample size of exactly one has performed exactly the same as my earlier Gen 3 G19-superbly.

I'm not happy with the issues that have cropped up on some of the latter-production Gen 3 and Gen4 Glocks; it seems like the only one to emerge unscathed from the Gen4 process is the Gen4 G21. However, I am comfortable that Glock has attained (arguably grudgingly and in fits and starts) the knowledge, techniques and corrected component(s) to successfully address the issues.

Without meaning to turn this thread into a Glock-versus-HK diatribe, I respectfully submit that HK has not necessarily enjoyed the most stellar reputation in dealing with issues, problems and aftermarket support in the past; hopefully that has changed for the better.

As has been thoroughly discussed in several previous pistol-forum threads, today there probably is no "perfect" out-of-the-box gun; all should be subject to scrutiny, familiarization, and being thoroughly wrung-out before being trusted in the field.

Best, Jon

[Jay Cunningham]

I just cannot get over how Glock still receives a "pass" given their current issues. I mean it takes a third party company to 'fix' their extraction woes, but yet, they still receive the Gold Standard stamp of approval? Talk about being "Sheeple." Oh, it's a Glock, we forgive, "lets play magical parts swap and hope this cures the cuts and bruises on my forehead." I don't get it.

In all the training classes I've attended over the last three years, the main platform I have seen fail is the Glock. In one class, out of four Glocks, I witnessed three go down. But we still give them a "pass." The Kool Aid must be good.

Oh, so this is a "Glock sucks" thread?

Okay.

[JV_]

No doubt the P30 is a great pistol, but the mag release and poor (to me) trigger keep me from getting one. Mostly the mag release.

The P30's mag release is the one thing I miss about that gun; when actuated with the trigger finger, it's very fast, and helps me maintain a solid grip on the gun.

[nwhpfan]

TLDR: If you were buying an all purpose 9mm handgun today, which platform would you go with?

XDM9

[gtmtnbiker98]

Oh, so this is a "Glock sucks" thread?

Okay.

Nope. OP asked a question and still, despite known issues, many still blindly recommend Glock. I just don't know why? That's all.

If I struck a nerve - well, it is what it is. It's a direct observation and a query. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Jay Cunningham]

They "blindly" recommend Glock?

Okay.

Oh BTW, I recommend you save that passive-aggressive "must have struck a nerve" stuff for a forum with lesser informed and experienced members.

Seriously.

[TGS]

Without meaning to turn this thread into a Glock-versus-HK diatribe, I respectfully submit that HK has not necessarily enjoyed the most stellar reputation in dealing with issues, problems and aftermarket support in the past; hopefully that has changed for the better.

Jon,

So their parts support sucks. I don't see how that is worse than gun-not-worky (Gen4), or gun-can't-hit-target (M&P) in the first place.

However, their customer service is outstanding and second to none.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
Break.....................Break................... ....Break................................
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________


As for the price, I always see people bring that up. I don't get that either, because the same people quoting price as an issue will still buy a SIG or 1911.....so $2000 for a 1911 is okay, but $900-$1100 for a gun that is a bomb-proof reliable design isn't? Perhaps the price is right given that the majority of platform types in the $500-$700 range have design and/or QC problems (slide locks up when hit from the front, trigger doesn't break when left in the heat, mag spring tempering, extractor issues, RSA issues, accuracy issues, ect). Actually, the only NIB gun I can think of in the Glock/M&P range that doesn't have a quirk is the Walther P99 or PPQ.

So, yeah, I see where gtmtnbiker98 just doesn't get it. I don't get it either. Apparently a cheap price, so-so to poor CS, laundry list of problems and awesome parts availability is better than no design issues, awesome CS, and poor parts availability. I don't get it. It's not an HK vs Glock thing.....it's a decision making process that I can't understand. People on this website talk about how important it is to have a reliable, vetted gun that they can at the very least hit a 8" circle at 25 yards but they go ahead and keep buying the same problem platform over and over, tinkering with different part numbers to get it to work right, or simply hoping that the next M&P out of the 6 that they bought will hit inside 8" at 25 yards. Have you ever seen a bigger disconnect?

This isn't a HK vs the world thing. I mentioned the Walther P99 as being hugely overlooked as well.

P99 was my first "hard use" gun and it performed splendidly through multiple training classes and thousands of rounds.
I recently bought my wife a PPQ and it is a superb evolution of the P99 line.
Do not overlook the Walther PPQ.

Totally. I just don't think it's as well suited to general purpose use given its trigger. I feel the QA or AS triggers are more appropriate for carry for the same reasons I think carrying cocked and unlocked isn't the best choice for carry.

[ToddG]

All opinions subject to change:

Beretta -- Practically a non-player these days. Everything since the 92-series has been questionable at best, and the best of the 92-series guns aren't made anymore. I'd use a 92FS if I was in the military and wanted to practice with something similar to my issued gun. Otherwise, not so much. The 92G Vertec I own is a fantastic gun and the 92G Compact -- made only in small numbers and discontinued years ago -- was one of the best carry guns I ever used.

Caracal -- This could be the great sleeper in the gun industry but a lot of people will have to put a lot of rounds downrange through a lot of pistols before I'd take it seriously. Lack of aftermarket support (and no real track record of warranty, etc.) makes this a Someone Else's Problem gun in my mind for now.

Glock -- I still see enough people having problems with gen4 or late model gen3 guns that I feel it's worth keeping in mind. Many of them work, but a whole lot more of them have problems than was the case five years ago. When you stake your reputation on Perfection and then give people this much reason for doubting basic reliability, it bites you in the behind. We shouldn't need to be excited about APEX solving the problem for the tiny percentage of Glock owners who will ever become aware of APEX.

FNS -- Still far too new to judge but early reports have been all over the map. The potential trigger issue which has been discussed previously here on the forum is troubling. The company's reputation for customer service is extremely poor... but FN has such tiny penetration into the civilian sector that most folks aren't even aware of it. Still, like the Caracal, this gun has a lot of potential. A few years from now it could be the New Glock.

HK -- Certainly not perfect and I've seen enough of them with issues (including my own test gun right out of the box) to believe in them blindly, but so far they still demonstrate to me the gold standard in design and manufacturing. No one is ever going to wait on an APEX extractor for the P30. HK's customer service is orders of magnitude better than it used to be and I know from both first- and second-hand experience that they take warranty service very seriously. LEM is the way to go imho as I've found the DA/SA versions to be mediocre in the trigger department. Aftermarket support is improving. Cost is high and availability of some critical items (like magazines) can be spotty. Maintenance is easy (just clean and lube until you hit 25k) until it's not (detail stripping and reassembling is complicated). I'm a confessed HK fanboy.

SIG -- One of the best, most proven designs on the market, the current crop of P22x-series guns suffers from well publicized issues related to quality control and parts selection these days. But a P226R w/SRT trigger that runs the way a SIG should run is still one of the best, most shootable guns I've ever used. I have far less faith in a NIB SIG than a NIB Glock. But once the gun has proven itself, I continue to think the SIG is a much better option than most people give credit for. And the SIGpro/P2022 series guns are real sleepers: reliable, accurate, inexpensive, and reasonably shootable with the only problem being aftermarket support.

Smith -- Between a perfectly put together (in my favorite configuration) & perfectly running M&P9 and an equally ideal Glock, I'd probably give the M&P the nod. But the M&P takes more work to get there: replace the trigger components, replace the extractor, possibly replace the barrel and/locking block... that's a lot of work (and expense) to get a gun to run 2% better than a stock Glock. And Smith seems to make a sport out of developing new problems for the M&P to make sure it never actually buries Glock in the market. Their customer service is usually very good if you have a problem they think is a problem... but too often they think your 8" group at 25yd is "within spec."

Walther -- The PPQ continues to be the darling of some forums but my opinion of them is neutral. The ones I've shot haven't impressed me positively or negatively except that the trigger seems more susceptible to accidents. It's like they took the paradigm shift of the Glock (short, light trigger with no safety) and took it a step farther to prove they could. But for the legions of shooters who think their trigger finger discipline is infallible, knock yourself out. The gun doesn't do enough better/different than a Glock or M&P -- while having less customer support and far less aftermarket support -- to ping my radar.