Mauser trigger return spring?

[pangloss]

Hi all. If anyone has much experience with old Mausers, I'd very much appreciate an opinion on something. My dad has an 1891 Argentine Mauser that he bought when he was in high school and tastefully sporterized a few years later. Before I was born, the rifle started splitting brass, so he shoved it in the back of the closet and left it there, until I got it out recently. I've taken to getting the gun back in working order which has taken more time and money than I expected. Anyway, I thought I would be finished today when I picked the rifle up from having a low mount safety installed on it. However when slowly dry firing the rifle tonight, I noticed that the trigger does not return to the forward position if I stop a trigger pull before the striker releases. I'm not comfortable having a gun that will allow the trigger to remain partially depressed, especially since the striker released when I moved the safety lever after one partial trigger pull. (I can seem to make that happen a second time though.) I have zero knowledge about bolt action rifle triggers. Would anyone care to offer an opinion if this problem can be fixed by replacing an old spring or perhaps buying a new trigger. Brownell's has Timney triggers for this rifle for ~$60, so I'm tempted to go that route. Thank you.

[Malamute]

The earlier Mausers were different in several ways than the 98s, Does the info on the Timney say it works on a 91?

Id look for a schematic of it in original form and see if yours varies from that, then start checking individual parts to see if theyve been modified, like springs shortened. It may have had the trigger or springs tinkered with in an attempt to improve the trigger pull, and may have been done in a way that doesnt allow proper function. Most older bolt action military rifles had two stage trigger pulls, doing away with that was not unusual, and was done in several ways that I recall. Checking yours against pictures of original parts may be helpful in figuring it out. Looking at pics on Numrich gun parts site may also help.

The surplusrifleforum.com/ often has info on older surplus guns of all sorts that you can search, or post about, or they may be able to steer you in the right direction.

As for spilitting cases, are you totally positive it had the correct ammo fired in it? There were many unique chamberings used by various countries, and the guns generally were NOT marked as to caliber/chambering from the factory, or may have vague info. A cerrosafe chamber cast should probably be done. many guns were also rechambered to different things if ammo or brass was hard to get, such as the 8mm/06 used in 8mm Mauser chambered guns. Many were never marked when such things were done. A chamber cast will tell the tale. They are fairly easy to do. Youtube will likley tell how. Its pretty low temp stuff.

[pangloss]

Thanks for your comments, Malamute. Regarding the trigger, Brownells lists several for the early Mausers. Apparently 1891-94 use one trigger (LINK). 95-96 use another, and 98's use a third. I'm told that the gun was in original form when my dad bought it (early 1960s). He shot 7.65 Arg rounds through it for maybe 10 years without a problem. Nevertheless, I did have the gunsmith do a chamber cast, and the gun is definitely still in the original caliber. I think the split cases were just a symptom of using really old ammo military surplus ammo. The ~45 year old Norma rounds that the gunsmith fired through it didn't split. Frankly, I can't understand why the ammo was not immediately suspect when the problems began to manifest, but that was way before my time. I have never taken the rifle apart, but I may poke at it this weekend. I looked at the exploded drawing on the Numrich website, and part #26 (sear spring; $2.70) seems the most likely culprit. I'll also take a look at surplusrifleform. That's one gun forum that I actually don't remember ever visiting!

[Malamute]

It would be nice to have a complete trigger setup to compare, but the spring may make it work right. if you sign up on the surplus rifle forum, it may be worth asking if anyone can measure the factory spring, or tell you how many coild it should have, and if the ends are flattened (so you could tell it it was changed). I wonder if they could get you a good picture of the trigger parts to see if yours had any modifications other than perhaps the spring? One trick on sporterized surplus rifles was trying to do away with the two stage function or otherwise make it better.

If Timney makes a trigger for it, it may be worthwhile if you want to shoot the gun much, though trying the spring and getting the original trigger to work may be fine. Even two stage military triggers can be clean and shootable.

It could well have been old ammo that caused the split cases, especially if it was questionable heritage surplus. Ive seen a few instances of old ammo splitting necks just sitting.

Let us know how things progress.

[pangloss]

I decided to just go ahead and order the Timney trigger. I'd like to have the gun ready by deer season, so there's a little bit of a rush. I'll take a good look at the old parts when they come out and see if I can't come up with some diagnosis.

Regarding the split cases, I really do think it was the ammo. Before I hand the rifle back over, I'll remind dad that all of old stuff needs to go. Prvi Partizan and Hornady both currently manufacture 7.65 Arg ammo, so there's not reason to use 100 year old stuff. I bought one box of the Prvi, but should probably order another the next time I buy ammo.

Thanks again for your advice, Malamute.

[Malamute]

Hope you get it running.

The Timney will probably need to be inletted into the stock, they havent dropped into any military bolt action stocks Ive seen. Its not hard to do. A dremel or sharp chisel of appropriate size will do it (little chips/shavings at a time so you dont chip or crack the stock, and dont pry on the edge of the action inletting and mar the edges). Inletting black is nice, but eyeballing it may be fine, or a bit of grease to transfer the trigger body shape to the wood so you can see where it needs to be cleaned up. Be sure its totally clear before torquing the action screws.

Inletting black was basically grease with carbon or lamp black to dye it I believe. Its brushed on the metal part, then the part set into what youre inletting it into, it transfers the black so you can see what needs to be removed. I dont know whats used today. I knew a guy that built muzzle loaders back when I was a kid, its what he used.

[okie john]

I'd like to have the gun ready by deer season, so there's a little bit of a rush.

This attitude will get you into trouble. You're talking about going into the field with a high-powered rifle that has a known safety deficiency in the fire control system. Do NOT use this rifle until you get the safety issue fixed. Don't even load it. The fact that the striker released when you moved the safety is a huge concern. For all you know, it could fall while the safety is engaged. Take it back to the gunsmith NOW and consider it deadlined until you have the problem under control. If that means waiting until next year to hunt with it, then you just have to live with that. When you go to pick it up, test it in the shop with him watching and have him explain both the problem and how he solved it. He may not like that, but you need a rifle that's safe and that works properly.

The safety system and the trigger system on military Mausers are incredibly simple, reliable, and rugged. They were also designed to be completely independent of one another. Instead of just blocking the trigger, a military Mauser safety actually cams the striker to the rear, removing it from any contact with the sear. Most aftermarket Mauser safeties do the same thing, so I suspect that the trigger on this rifle is fine and that the gunsmith did not install the safety properly. That can bind the striker, which can make it seem like you have a trigger problem even if you don't. If you start replacing parts without understanding which problem you're trying to solve, then you can a) fool yourself into thinking that you solved the problem, b) make things worse, c) cover up the real problem, or d) any combination of the above.

The dragging trigger could easily be due to the fact that the rifle is just dirty. I've been inside of dozens of old military and commercial Mausers, ALL of which were full of dead grease that had probably been there since they left the factory. Triggers are especially bad in this respect. A complete disassembly and cleaning down to the bare metal followed by a light coat of oil is usually the functional equivalent of a trigger job. Even if your father cleaned it and oiled it when he bought it, the fact that it's been sitting in a closet longer than you've been alive means that it needs some attention.


Okie John

[Malamute]

John makes a good point. The bolt safety should cam the striker back from the sear. The trigger may have been messed with "to improve it" and affected how it interacts with the safety, and the new safety may not be fitted correctly. You need to find out exactly which (or both) is going on before taking it out in the field.

The rule of unintended consequences comes into force when doing what seems like simple things, like "drop in" parts for 1911s can make things happen one wasnt expecting.

[pangloss]

This attitude will get you into trouble.

Thanks for your concern. I assure you that I have no intention of shooting the rifle until all of these issues are resolved. Based on Malamute's comments and the reviews on Brownell's, I expect installing the new trigger will require the stock to be inletted some, which is beyond my known competency. If it were my rifle, I might try it, but since it's not mine, I fully expect to take it back to the gunsmith and discuss these new problems and a new trigger. Come to think of it, I'd never carefully dry fired the rifle before, so I don't know if this problem is really new.

When the striker released after I touched the safety, I'd pulled the trigger as far as I could without letting the rifle dry fire. My hypothesis is that the striker was less than a hair's breadth from releasing, and the play in the bolt when I pushed up on the safety was enough to cause the striker to release. As I mentioned, I can't manage to repeat this event, which is consistent with me not pulling the trigger quite as far as I did that one time. The problem is definitely beyond my expertise and trying to figure it out myself is not the most expedient route to getting the rifle back in shooting condition. While I would like the rifle to be ready for deer season, it's not critical as my dad has a modern (relatively speaking) rifle in good repair that he can use until this Argentine back online.