Fidel Castro Dead at 90

[modrecoil]

Whether Hitler was far right or left is a complicated question and depends on your national, historic, and social perspectives. The far-right label is more a result of the Nazis Party insistence that they're polar opposites of communists than leftist propaganda. They were certainly to the right of the far left and quickly purged traditional socialists from their ranks when their views threatened the ideological "purity" of Hitler's rhetoric. Communists were understandably happy to encourage Hitler's far-right label and media doesn't like shades of gray. It's true that Hitler blamed Jewish capitalists for suffering inflicted on the German working class but he also blamed Jews for communism that threatened German free enterprise and industry. He was a populist who used whatever ideological tool was at hand. Lust for personal authority and power isn't exclusive to any economic or social ideology.

Personally, I think Political Compass has it approximately correct:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2

[Drang]

Quibble- I have had a problem with calling Statist like Hitler, Franco, et al "rightist", especially since they tend to run their states in ways fairly indistinguishable from the officially franchised Communist.

Joe, that's a fantastic insight. I don't bring it up often because it seems to confuse people more than if I stick to traditional left/right labels.

Doctor Pournelle agrees with you both: Pournelle chart - Wikipedia

As does David Nolan: Nolan Chart - Wikipedia (Although this is pretty simplistic.)

And the Brits who developed the Political compass chart.

[SeriousStudent]

Wait. His last name's not Ricardo, is it? Very nice gesture on your part, thank you, and a great toast from your friend.

LOL. No, it's not. It's a hyphenated name, and he's not related at all to Dezi Arnaz or his television likeness.

I am very fortunate to live in a very heterogeneous neighborhood. We have families from the Philippines, Guam, India, Tibet, Germany, Canada, England, Hong Kong, Vietnam and Cuba - that I know of. Our block parties have amazing food!

[Joe in PNG]

Whether Hitler was far right or left is a complicated question and depends on your national, historic, and social perspectives. The far-right label is more a result of the Nazis Party insistence that they're polar opposites of communists than leftist propaganda. They were certainly to the right of the far left and quickly purged traditional socialists from their ranks when their views threatened the ideological "purity" of Hitler's rhetoric. Communists were understandably happy to encourage Hitler's far-right label and media doesn't like shades of gray. It's true that Hitler blamed Jewish capitalists for suffering inflicted on the German working class but he also blamed Jews for communism that threatened German free enterprise and industry. He was a populist who used whatever ideological tool was at hand. Lust for personal authority and power isn't exclusive to any economic or social ideology.

Personally, I think Political Compass has it approximately correct:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2

There's a reason I prefer the term "Statist" over "Leftist" or "Rightist"- when someone's boot is stamping on your face, do you really care if it's the Left or Right boot?
Inevitably, either totalitarian is going to do pretty much the same thing- suppress free speech, throw opponents into camps, take all the nice things and give them to his cronies (and destroy the economy), find an out group to blame everything on (with a sliding scale of who goes into the out group).

There's a glamour to tyrants I would like to see dispelled- glamour in the old sense of the word, a spell to hide the appearance of a malevolent fae spirit. The Fascist have a glamour of efficiency (make the trains run on time), while the Communist have the glamour of equality (free health care & education for the masses!). Both systems involve the same old lying thugs stealing and killing in order to enrich themselves and their buddies.

[Edwin]

Fidel Castro, founder of America's premiere gayborhood, has died.

[Joe in PNG]

Meanwhile the deification of this tyrant continues. All going to prove that if one just adopts the Socialist label and provides free health care* & education, one can oppress the people, steal anything anyone has that is worthwhile, kill anyone who dares to protest, and leave your people in such utter poverty that milk is a luxury, and the First World Left will sing your praises.

I find it ironic that the very same people that are freaking out about the possibility of the Trump administration oppressing gays and other minorities are now praising the wonderfulness of one who actually oppressed gays and minorities. Of someone who left his people in worse poverty than the worst slum in the US.


*it doesn't have to be very good health care, just free.

[TCinVA]

But it's disingenuous to say that only "progressives" have murder in their hearts. The quote above can apply just as easily to the right as the left.

Let's accept for the moment the identification of the Nazis as "right" even though I reject that definition because Hitler was a darling of the progressive set in the western world before our troops started liberating concentration camps. The labeling is largely bullshit because in reality whether you examine Stalin or Hitler you still end up with a corrupt oligarchy achieving wealth and power by completely defiling any concept of individual rights and freedoms with all power to the state and anyone in the way getting steam-rolled. Sometimes literally.

How many US university departments have Nazi instructors in them?

How many have openly communist instructors in them?

If you go to the average college campus, how many Hitler t-shirts will you spot?

How many Che t-shirts will you spot?

How many Nazi organizations successfully recruited people within the government of the United States and in important cultural positions within the United States to advance the Nazi cause?

How many did the KGB successfully recruit in the United States?

In other words, if we accept the proposition that the Nazis were "right wing" then it does not seem to be a terribly successful sell here in the states. Probably because it's rather difficult to ignore the outright criminality of the Nazi regime since we invaded their territory, killed a bunch of them, and captured plenty of evidence of their crimes.

Meanwhile here in the US you can count on Thomas Friedman writing at least two columns a year in our supposed newspaper of record about how awesome the Chinese are because they "get things done", completely glossing over the fact that how they get things done is by killing people. He's the Walter Duranty of our time. And he's even using the exact same verbiage progressive luminaries of the 30's like George Bernard Shaw used about Herr Hitler and Stalin to boot.

And our mainstream press has been giving Castro a rhetorical blowjob while there are still survivors of his concentration camps and prisons alive to tell their tale. Because he's a communist.

If we accept the preposition that there are different flavors of murderous tyranny, it's worth noting that there's only one flavor of it being sold on every street corner in the country. If we were keeping score in the sheer levels of human misery and murder inflicted on the planet, that flavor of murderous tyranny was murderous on levels that make the combined efforts of Hitler, Pinochet, and Franco look like a bunch of pikers.

[ralph]

I guess smoking all those cigars finally got to him.

Actually, from what I've read he quit smoking cigars some time ago...He did live to be 90..and you're not doing that smoking cigars..

[11B10]

Che Guevara has been waiting for him in Hell since 1967.

JohnO - ya beat me to it, buddy ^^^^. I just heard this morning that Castro/Che/et al, murdered more people than Stalin and Hitler during their "glory years." What possible thing can anyone come up with that can erase that? I'm sure our "Apologizer in Charge" (only for a very short time now!) will come up with some cockamamie statement extolling them.

[TCinVA]

JohnO - ya beat me to it, buddy ^^^^. I just heard this morning that Castro/Che/et al, murdered more people than Stalin and Hitler during their "glory years."

As a percentage of available population with which to do horrible things, perhaps. I haven't looked extensively into the numbers Castro and Che put up on the crimes against humanity scoreboard, but it might be possible that they hit on a higher percentage of their population than, say, Stalin.

There's no way they beat Stalin in the raw oppression numbers, though.