Scout rifle, circa 2016

[Bigghoss]

One of those two rifles should be on layaway. Just saying. One of them would be had I visited that store today.

You have a point. I think the Mauser may have been a yugo because I think I remember it having a flat on the inside of the bolt knob. Still, it was totally refinished so $500 isn't unreasonable. I should go back.

Thanks a lot, Duelist. You just ultimately cost me $1000. Turns out that particular gun store will let you put two guns on lay-away and the very very pretty woman working the counter brought up a good point when she said I shouldn't fret over which to get and just get both. Although the fact that she could have talked me into a Hi-Point doesn't matter because I walked in there planning to ask about putting them both on lay-away anyway.

Turns out the Mauser is a legit Gewehr 98 but the collector value is gone now. Burris 2.75 LER scope on a Burris mount, matte finish, and custom stock. Slick action and good bore.

[okie john]

The weight limit floats a bit depending upon you, how far and high you have to carry the rifle, how much ammo is on board, how big a caliber it is, and what compromises you make on optics. In my experience, sub 6 pounds is great to carry, but harder to shoot well. Over 8 pounds gets burdensome hunting on foot in the mountains. Somewhere in there is a sweet spot for me, but others might have a different weight envelope.

I'm also in this boat.

Stock design and how well the rifle fits the shooter become a lot more important as you dip below about 7 pounds. For instance, I have a 20" Husqvarna 1600 in 30/06 that's stocked for iron sights. It has a lot of drop at the heel and weights a shade over 6 pounds without a scope. It's a delight to carry, and recoil isn't too bad with 150-grain ammo, but that elegant little stock becomes an instrument of torture as bullet weight rises, even with a first-rate recoil pad. With 220-grain ammo, it kicks like a 338.


Okie John

[Duelist]

Thanks a lot, Duelist. You just ultimately cost me $1000. Turns out that particular gun store will let you put two guns on lay-away and the very very pretty woman working the counter brought up a good point when she said I shouldn't fret over which to get and just get both. Although the fact that she could have talked me into a Hi-Point doesn't matter because I walked in there planning to ask about putting them both on lay-away anyway.

Turns out the Mauser is a legit Gewehr 98 but the collector value is gone now. Burris 2.75 LER scope on a Burris mount, matte finish, and custom stock. Slick action and good bore.

It's always fun to spend other people's money, but if you're going to blame me for being weak, you'll need to post pics of the pretty lady and the guns for proper assessment of the validity of your claims.

[Duces Tecum]

The gun-hipster thing of late seems to be to declare the 16" 5.56 AR as useless in favor of the 7.62, although that largely seems to be based on because: SHTFantasy.

It's not SHTFantasy. It's contingency planning.

[spinmove_]

It's not SHTFantasy. It's contingency planning.

Yeah, kinda the same in the pistol realm. If Michigan ever becomes a magazine limit state, I gotta figure out what pistols look like for me. Love my G19, but from what I hear the 10 round Glock magazines kinda suck and I don't have any other pistols that meet that limit apart from my M&P Shield 9. But that's another discussion.

[Dagga Boy]

I agree on the 7.62 semi auto with most of Unobtaniums post. I cured myself of the 7.62 as the same as 5.56 when I went through and EAG Advanced Low Light carbine class with a LaRue Ranger rifle. It is not a 5.56 and actually felt more like running a 12 ga. For three days of hard shooting. With that said, my Ranger Rifle and Colt 901 are set up as medium range DMR type guns, and I ve gone to 6.8 SPC for those times when I want more than 5.56 inside of 300 yards.

The other issue is most of the appeal of these guns to me is legalality wise as I don't really hunt. Any AR based platform will be an issue in a bunch of places. This is why my levers, bolt and shotguns are my travel and general purpose guns.

[okie john]

The other issue is most of the appeal of these guns to me is legalality wise as I don't really hunt. Any AR based platform will be an issue in a bunch of places. This is why my levers, bolt and shotguns are my travel and general purpose guns.

I do hunt, and that often requires travel, so having guns that don't raise questions is pretty important. An pair of ARs in 5.56 and 7.62 would meet most if not all of my needs, but I'd rather not have to explain them.


Okie John

[Failure2Stop]

I may be mis-reading things, but I find a 30%+ increase in weight to not really be comparable to a 5.56 gun. Am I missing something?
SR-25 E2 ADVANCED COMBAT CARBINE 8.4 lbs
SR-15 MOD 2 M-LOK 6.44 lbs
Or is this just one of those "you're weak, 2 lbs doesn't matter, be a man, go to the gym, etc." arguments? I'm asking legitimately, as a 2+ lbs difference seems like a lot to me.

I'm pretty rarely one of those "go to gym" type of guys, but 7.62 carbines are not for the light framed if you're going to use it as a heavy carbine/dual-role carbine.
For reference, the shorty 416 comes in at almost 7 lbs, the standard M4A1 is about 6.4 lbs, and a Mk 12 Mod 1 is about 8.5 lbs, before optics, lasers, grenade launchers, bipods, etc.
To me, a 12-13lb total weight 7.62 is really close to or less than the the weight of the majority of guns I had to haul around in conflict. I also routinely carried upward of 50 lbs of shit from armor to Copenhagen, so my perspective on weight is probably different than others. If you don't want more weight than a lightweight 5.56 gun, you probably don't want to step into 7.62 unless you really like recoil.

Lots there. I actually agree with most of it. My question becomes one of whether or not some of these people are taking game or shooting past 200, let alone both at once.

I would dare venture that most of what was envisioned in a scout rifle by Cooper (I base this on my understanding, not an exhaustive knowledge of his writings, so I wouldn't be surprised to be completely off the mark) is met by a decent .308 semi-auto with decent glass and a decent sling.
I'm not here to tell anyone what they will or won't use their stuff for. I'm coming from a cost:benefit analysis in which I believe that the benefit is pretty strong.

here again my question falls to what the "job" really is?

I'm not sure I'm following the line of thought.
The task is pretty similar to 5.56, just generally more capable.

i think some are over-reaching with this. I can see a logical progression from
1) I want a Scout rifle because:whyever
2) wait, there are semi-auto guns that shoot the same bullet at the same weight
3) shit, those semi-auto guns cost an arm and a leg!
4) well crap, they don't really make the bolt-action I want so I'd be paying 7.62 semi-auto money for my fancy bolt action anyway
5) I'm just going to go with the semi-auto and live with the "bust" in the weight criteria

Where the wheels come off for me is that some people seem to have leaped from this point to the idea that
6) all I want to own is a single 7.62 semi-auto boutique rifle" in lieu of the "scout", the 16" 5.56 AR, etc.

That's the jump I don't get, and seems a leap too far where people are using "I might one day..." or "I might have to..." to justify something they came to by feel.

At the end of the day it's their money not mine, so I don't really care, I just have a hard time seeing the argument for a heavier, more expensive, costlier to feed, more esoteric, bulkier gun for an application I certainly won't have and I doubt many of the people running off the cliff will either.

For me, this is how I wound up at
6) Just buy a Savage Scout or Hog Hunter and live with the shitty feed system, and keep my 10 year old 556 AR that has nothing wrong with it.

If I could own only one rifle I would be torn between an SBR 5.56 and a carbine 7.62. What I would reach for would depend on the circumstance.
I'm not telling anyone that they have to get rid of their 5.56 rifles, and I'm not telling anyone that 16" 7.62s are the one true light either.

Interesting, as they list it at 7.75 lbs vs the KAC 8.4 lbs. That would seem to get under the 8 lbs limit GJM and other more experience bolt-gun shooters seem to favor.

Our published weights are as they ship. Naked, with a CTR stock and MIAD grip (no plug), the ACC is 7.9 lbs, has a 15" industry standard negative mounting space handguard, suppressor compatible muzzle device, and fully ambidextrous controls.

[Dagga Boy]

"I would dare venture that most of what was envisioned in a scout rifle by Cooper (I base this on my understanding, not an exhaustive knowledge of his writings, so I wouldn't be surprised to be completely off the mark) is met by a decent .308 semi-auto with decent glass and a decent sling.
I'm not here to tell anyone what they will or won't use their stuff for. I'm coming from a cost:benefit analysis in which I believe that the benefit is pretty strong."

I believe you can or we are getting very close. The key would be keeping weight off, reliability and recoil characteristics. When I first started on the 6.8 SPC thing it was mainly because he .308's are not there yet. I think many have been figured out.....but it takes work in a cluttered market to see what really works.
I had some delusions of trying to do something with the FNAR (I think that is what it is called). Something along the lines of that would be interesting. I also think some things like the Robar LIghtweight AR's done in .308 and optimized for PMAGs would have some real potential. Also, with the advantage of things like the Aimpoint T2....a ton of potential for getting a 24/7 optic in a sub 4 ounce package. Especially if you can add magnification if needed and keep the weight off the gun when it isn't.
Cooper would be disturbed by the idea, but we are getting semi autos now that have no problem meeting the accuracy level,of a bolt gun and solid reliability. As much as I loved my HK91's, we can build non-battle rifles now in semi auto.

[drjaydvm]

What about something like the Troy PAR? An AR pattern rifle that is actually a pump action. Wouldn't this be legal almost everywhere? It even comes in 338 federal.