Carbine vs handgun

[SLG]

One point of clarification. I don't think the 9mm actually has more recoil than a 5.56. I do perceive that it has more dot movement than the 3gun AR's I've shot from time to time. Of course those were 18" rifle gas guns with low mass internals and obnoxious comps, but it was ridiculous how easily one could hammer out repeated A zone hits at what most consider long pistol range. I think I'll notice pretty similar dot movement between my Colt 16" carbine and the 9mm AR, but testing that hasn't exactly been a priority.

Copy. I've shot those types a small amount, but my standard M4 is a carbine gas system and a flash hider. I am comparing that to a Colt submachine gun or MP-5 similarly set up.

[Talionis]

I don't find this at all surprising. If you can shoot a handgun well, after being shown the manipulations, you can shoot a carbine, but the opposite doesn't necessarily hold true, as the pistol requires you to work the trigger without the stability the long gun provides.

I wouldn't describe the 9mm AR recoil as being more than 5.56 in the classic "recoils more sense," but rather recoils/cycles slower. My "regular" AR carbines seem to shoot arrays faster than 9mm, but my steel targets thank me for shooting the slower 9.

BTW, my wife recently showed me some vid of Talionis shooting the VP9 at a match, and he is a real up and comer.

Agree with all this. I've definitely had to teach a number of competent rifle shooters very rudimentary things about how to hit stuff with a pistol.

Also: creeper

[Talionis]

Copy. I've shot those types a small amount, but my standard M4 is a carbine gas system and a flash hider. I am comparing that to a Colt submachine gun or MP-5 similarly set up.

I pretty much figured that was your context. I think the biggest difference may be the presence of a comp and enough gas to drive it. I'd venture that without that, any of the long guns you mention would behave fairly similarly. Does that match up with your experience? I'm a little curious if the MP-5 might have a slight edge over the Colt SMG though. (I may be slightly biased.)

[SLG]

I pretty much figured that was your context. I think the biggest difference may be the presence of a comp and enough gas to drive it. I'd venture that without that, any of the long guns you mention would behave fairly similarly. Does that match up with your experience? I'm a little curious if the MP-5 might have a slight edge over the Colt SMG though. (I may be slightly biased.)

That sounds about right. I have comps on some of my guns and they are pretty flat. However, I am pretty recoil insensitive, in the sense that guns that recoil little all seem similar to me, so I would have to do a side by side comparison to really say much. The Colt SMG's really shoot nicely, imo, but the test is full auto, and an MP-5 definitely handles easier in full auto. An MP-5SD3 is perhaps the most fun you can have until moving up to an M2.

[Talionis]

Makes sense, thanks. I hope to get my hands on a real deal MP-5SD some day to play around with.

[psalms144.1]

An MP-5SD3 is perhaps the most fun you can have until moving up to an M2.

We have very limited access to SDs, almost all our MP5s and MP5KNs, but I concur with you wholeheartedly. I've shot LOTS and LOTS of FA, and while the Thompson is great from a nostalgia perspective, the Grease Gun's low cyclic rate is a lot of fun to play with, and I will always have an abiding love for my old pig girlfriend the M60, for shoulder fired full auto, the MP5 is hard to beat. And, of course, the M2 is the pinnacle of firearms development, IMHO.

[T.Stahl]

As people are posting data to compare pistols to carbines...
I shot at the county championships last Friday. Targets are five 20cm/8" steel plates at 25m/27yds. You start at 45° low ready or with the stock on the hip. My times for the six series were:

Glock 17L: 15.06 + 12.96 + 13.95 + 9.31 + 10.60 + 11.00 = 72.88sec total
Glock 17L w/ shoulder stock: 6.42 + 7.21 + 5.94 + 7.58 + 6.34 + 5.45 = 38.94sec total
Rossi M92P .44Mag*: 6.20 + 7.06 + 9.50 + 9.13 + 7.22 + 8.94 = 48.05sec total

The Rossi is what I'd consider a suitable/realistic trunk gun. I was shooting 7gr Trailboss behind 240gr bullets, which is closer to .44 Very Special than .44 Magnum.