A Carry gun can be concealed on one's person and can be fired with one hand. A Combat gun has a stock, a long barrel, fires a powerful cartridge, and takes two hands to shoot. Assuming that the former, no matter what its size, is in any way equivalent to the latter is foolishness.
When I give private lessons, if I need to demo, I use the student's gun. That way they don't think I'm using a tricked out SCCY to be able to shoot well.
Originally Posted by HeadHunter
Plenty of people have combat handguns. In the US they're the M9, M11 and M45.
Perhaps you do not realize who you are talking to.
Plenty of people have combat handguns. In the US they're the M9, M11 and M45.
Let me help you with that:
http://ballisticradio.com/2013/06/30...-june-30-2013/
http://ballisticradio.com/2014/04/21...ril-20th-2014/
HeadHunter is the real deal dude... ease up and listen.
Plenty of people have combat handguns. In the US they're the M9, M11 and M45.
It's not meant as an insult to say someone is missing the point. Happens all the time. To come in a handgun thread and say 'rifles are better' is not topical or relevant. I'm not sure who here needs to be informed of long gun superiority?
ETA: My take is that the 'combat handgun' is one that you either leave at the base, or if forced to take, make it as light as possible with as many rounds as possible (Glock 17) so it's less of a distraction. HeadHunter is right in that there's either 'your combat rifle' or 'you're fucked' when you're left with just a handgun.
Last edited by Haraise; 10-20-2014 at 07:01 PM.
We are back on topic now.
I try to carry as much gun as I can.
For me, that's a lightweight commander strong side most of the time, a CCO in t shirt weather. I am, for the third and hopeful last time, about to sell my J frame, because I don't find myself in circumstances where I can carry a gun at all and can't carry the CCO.
The CCO is, for me, an acceptable mix of the attributes I think are good in a fighting handgun.
I fool with other platforms sometimes, out of interest; when I do, I try to focus on them for a while, and I usually switch to them for carry.
Ignore Alien Orders
Lots of catching up from my last post, all good stuff.
Over the years, I've tried a number of "small" guns for easier CC with summer clothing, including a J-frame and a Colt Mustang .380 (which IMO was really a POS). Neither of those were satisfactory for me as I was unable to shoot either even remotely as well as a larger handgun.
My first Glock was a 23. Call me a girly, but for some reason the .40 didn't seem to recoil any less than a .45 and I still did not feel I shot it well enough.
The 23 went in favor of a 17C, which has been the sweet spot for me. I even ran it through a PPC course and though points were dropped vs. my S&W Model 14 shooting wadcutters, I was pleasantly surprised at how well I was able to do with it at the longer 25 and 50 yard distances (with Heinie SlantPro sights) using 124 grain FMJ ammo. When shooting IDPA I have a non-ported barrel to keep it game legal.
Because I have small hands, the Walther Police Pistol Slim fits my girly mitts very well. What has amazed me about it is how well I can shoot it and based on all the reading I have done, I am far from alone in that assessment. The PPS is the first easy-to-CC handgun that I have owned that I can shoot well, giving up little-to-nothing to the G17 in the critical 3 to 5 yard range of the typical self defense encounter. I also believe that from a retention standpoint, the PPS has a very considerable edge.
In a typical up-close-and-over-fast self defense scenario, I do not feel disadvantaged in any way with the PPS. But if it was a more prolonged situation beyond the typical 3 to 5 yard SD engagement, I know the G17 would gain me some major advantage over the PPS. Thus back to my original question but with a bit of rephrasing: do you carry an easy-to-conceal handgun that you feel 100% confident with to defend yourself, but also have a larger/more capable/higher capacity handgun that is also set up for CC for when you can effectively conceal it, OR do you strictly carry one handgun regardless of the season or any other (real or perceived) circumstances?
Thanks again to all for your continued indulgence.
Last edited by NH Shooter; 10-20-2014 at 07:45 PM.
NH Shooter - a quibble, but, I believe, a valid one. "in the critical 3 to 5 yard range of the typical self defense encounter." A friend used to like to repeat the quote, I think from Mark Twaine, that there are "lies, damned lies, and statistics." I think the "typical self defense encounter" description (3 rounds, 3 yards, 3 seconds) is the MOST misused and misunderstood thing since "9mm is for sissies" was posited.
I'm not a mathematician (dropped calculus in 12th grade to take drivers ed - which REALLY set me up for my current gig as an economic crimes specialist!), but I do know that "averages" mean basically NOTHING. Since MOST SD "uses" of firearms involve one party scatting for all they're worth at the display of the other party's firearm, the number of rounds fired in actual shootings gets VERY skewed (average 9 "zeros" and one "ten" and you get an AVERAGE of one round per encounter - which is GROSSLY false in describing ANY of them).
Besides that, your chances of having to draw your weapon are infinitesimally small. So, MAYBE, the BG you have to draw down on is either (a) one of a pack, (b) a dedicated, motivated attacker who won't stop aggressing until you "switch him off" or literally shoot him to bits, (c) doped out of his gourd on bath salts and thinks you're beef jerky, or (d) a kittened up combination of any/all of the above. Tell me again why you want to have a 6 or 7 shot 9mm for that?
Yes, you SHOOT the PPS well. How do you RELOAD it? How do you shoot it one handed, maybe weak hand only? If you're performing at tip-top of your game, and you're running 50% hits on the two-way rifle range, how many HITS are in the PPS? Enough to stop more than one attacker? Enough to stop someone stoned out of their mind?
And, let's just imagine YOUR gun fight isn't "average." What if you're at work/church/shopping when your nightmare shows up with an AK and starts killing people 10, 15, 25 yards away. PPS still going to do it for you?
This is where this argument goes off the tracks. You either prepare and equip for the WORST case scenario, or you roll your dice on the law of averages.
For me, I don't trust averages, I don't expect ANYTHING to be easy. If I'm in that TINY fraction of a percent of private citizens who use their weapon for self defense, I've already blown the AVERAGE out of the water.
Again, YMMV, and you gotta do what's right for you. For me, it's the G19 or a similar sized "compact" semi-auto that allows me to perform to the best of my abilities on the worst day of my life.
Regards,
Kevin
Tom Givens student stats;
90% were 3 to 5 yards. Three out of 64 occurred at or beyond 15 yards. Two occurred at contact distance. All the rest between 3 and 7 yards.
Number of rounds fired ranged from 2 to 3 in a shooting (one individual firing) to nearly always fully emptying the magazine in gunfights (multiple individuals shooting)- Again, this mirrors what we see. Our average number of shots is about four although we have had shootings involving 8, 11, and 12 rounds fired by one individual.
See post #287 - http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...-killed/page29
I'm comfortable being well prepared for the most likely. If a band of ISIS terrorists show up with AKs blazing, I'll be running away with everyone else.
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