Freestyle shooting at 25 yds revisited

[JWinTN]

I typically shoot a few groups at 10 and 15 yards every time I'm at the range. Lately I've been doing a 3-round walk back drill on a 3" square at 5, 7, 10, 15, 20, and 25 yards. I periodically attempt to shoot groups at 25, mostly for the opportunity to create "inventive combinations of curse words."

I recently swapped to some Trijicon HD's, and being the amateur gunsmith I am, I fought trying to tell/guess/hope that they are zeroed. Here's some at 25, using Walmart Federal and some American Eagle value pack. Gun is an M&P 9FS. Shooter is not good at 25.

Just to go ahead and set up an excuse, I was shooting in the woods in East Tennessee after a rain shower, and there was practically no way to keep my glasses from fogging.



So, I appear to be trending right. Hold seems okay-ish elevation-wise, lollipopping the bottom of the black. Let's shoot another one. Yep, still a little right.



Now, let's swap ammo, change from photochromic clear to photochromic red lenses, and try again. Well, that's helpful.



Here's one I shot at 10 yards, at a relatively brisk pace, right before I packed up. The flyer was the first round, go figure. I believe the sights are okay, but I'll have to play with it some more before I call it good. I don't really have anyone to help with diagnosis, nor do I know anyone who spends any time shooting at 25, so I can't really tell if the sights are off or if it's just me. That's what makes it all fun, I guess.

[SailDesign]

Well, you may be bad at 25 for YOU, but that ^^^ there gives me something to aim for (pun well intended) even if my barrel is a bit shorter on the Cheetah.

[HCM]

Still Trending a little left with the Glock 17 gen 4, Drive the dot hold :



With the M&P9 FS and Win 147 grain- 6 o'clock hold:

[BaiHu]

Ok, I'm pretty convinced that I need to drift the sights a bit.

Here are two pictures of 5 shots today.

The tape is from a previous shooter.

If you look at the right edge of the dollar bill, you'll see the edge of an orange vertical line that is perpendicular to the horizontal line you see. The dollar shows that the highest and lowest shots are approximately a 3" group.


The dollar folded in half represents approximately a 3" group between the farthest shots.


The dollar sideways is about 2 5/8" to the first shot left of the perpendicular line plus another 3" to get to the furthest left shot on the edge of the orange horizontal line. This is now about 50 rounds of slow fire in the last few weeks all landing in the same area. I used S&B JHP 124 gr, b/c it's been the most consistent shooting ammo.

Thoughts to the contrary of drifting the rear sight? Question to Hufnagel: do you have an HK sight pusher?

[BaiHu]

Running the calculations, I get a .017" drift to the right, correct?

Error=2.625" to the left.
Sight Radius=5.85"
Distance to target=900"

[CCT125US]

Running the calculations, I get a .017" drift to the right, correct?

Error=2.625" to the left.
Sight Radius=5.85"
Distance to target=900"

yes

[BaiHu]

yes

I'm assuming that you also agree they should be drifted?

[Failure2Stop]

Running the calculations, I get a .017" drift to the right, correct?

Error=2.625" to the left.
Sight Radius=5.85"
Distance to target=900"

Agreed.
Well, I agree that sights need to be adjusted, as for the exact amount... well, I didn't wind up in the Corps because I like math...

Really, I just mark the sights, make an adjustment, shoot some groups, and repeat until zeroed.

[BaiHu]

Good. I'm glad, because I don't want to drift if it's something else. Hopefully I'll get to it this week.

[ASH556]

Good. I'm glad, because I don't want to drift if it's something else. Hopefully I'll get to it this week.

Don't sweat it so much, man. I was with you, always wanting to fix me, not the pistol. Enough trusted industry people (Vickers, F2S, Hollister) told me directly to quit sweating it and just move the sight that I went ahead and did it. I wonder now why I fought it so long. Not sure if you shoot rifles, but I don't think twice about adjusting windage (as long as it's not maxed out) on a rifle, so why should I sweat it on a pistol. Look at the way a pistol is designed: there's nothing that can absolutely guarantee that the centerline of the slide corresponds precisely with the centerline of the bore on a mass-produced weapon with loose enough tolerances to function reliably when dirty. As long as you're grouping respectably, move the sights, and re-asses.

The absolute worst thing that can happen is you begin hitting to the right because you fixed something wrong in your grip, sight picture, trigger control, etc. and so then you move the sights back to the left. Even changing the ammo you shoot can cause a noticeable difference in POI (as you've seen in this thread). Zero the pistol with your carry load and roll on.