How to Fix the Ghetto.

[JHC]

I kind of get what your saying, but I think your downplaying The dangerous effects of alcohol. According to CDC stats, there are 88,000 alcohol related deaths each year in 'Murica. Crack and meth, not even close.

I find it interesting you use the most extreme examples of drug use too. Even if crack and meth were legal, I don't think you'd see a huge jump in usage. Most people know crack and meth not good for you, same way most people know drinking a fifth of vodka is bad for you. Addiction is addiction.

Marijuana has been shown to have numerous health benefits, including chronic pain m anagement and reducing deadly epileptic seizures.

You may be right. Around here the meth eats so many folks alive that I gravitate to that example. But prescription pain killers may be even worse! Our ERs are jammed with strung out poor whites trying to bluff their way to prescriptions for them. There is a lot of recent research pretty damning of the harmless hemp however. Just sayin' . But at the end of the line; why add more legal intoxicants etc? What good does that serve?

[YVK]

Isn't this post a violation of the forum CoC? I realize its not directed at anyone, but theres a platter of offensive slurs in your post which aren't needed to make your point.

I am a first gen immigrant, and I don't find it a least bit offensive. What I do find ironic is you calling her out on form without regard to content and context after this...

because any attempt to even point it out becomes wrapped up in racism. Sometimes attempts to identify the problems come to fruition in the form of racism on the part of the observer -- people see patterns and get their correlation and causation mixed up -- but more often these days members of the culture, or those with a vested interest in maintaining control of that culture, jump straight to accusations of racism.

Agreed.

...'cause you're accusing her of a racism by means of offensive slur when she is making a valid point in a literary and dispassionate form.

[JHC]

I'm half Polish and consider "Pollock" a term of endearment.

[JAD]

Keeping things on topic, I've lived in both trailer parks and ghettos, and alcohol lubricated the ruination of more lives in both places than crank or crack. The discussion points to the root of the central question. The question isn't 'what laws can we add that will make people more moral.' It is 'how do we become a more moral culture.' Ghettos (projects, cropper shacks, or 14x70s) are the little stagnant pools that full the low ground around the river of culture. Secularization levels the riverbed, until it's all one big morass.

[RoyGBiv]

Agreed. That's why I started this thread, because leftist government and greater society alike is just fine with the status quo, if not the body count it generates. In Chicago the politicians deliberately cast a blind eye to the struggles in the ghetto, because a dependent voting base keeps them in office. Why would a Chicago politician logically want a voting base of educated people in place of the welfare drones in the south and west sides? Meanwhile , that approach also spares the upper crust leftist intellectuals from confronting the truth that their precious programs have crashed and burned.

QFT

[MDS]

Check this kitten out!!! http://ezinearticles.com/?Nicotine--...its?&id=291157

Ooh, fun! http://www.livescience.com/41277-hea...gal-drugs.html

I'm pro-vices in general. Just anti-drug.

Gotcha, just trying to dig a little deeper to understand how drugs are different from other vices. Thanks for humoring me, I got enough that I don't need to derail this thread further with it.

What's your super power? I have super human levels of rationalization.

I once played a game of nethack all the way through in a single sitting. It wasn't pretty, but I think it should count. (Of course, now we have to talk about how video games are what's ruining our youth. )

I think the entire point is that alcohol being more prevalent is a large reason why it accounts for more deaths. I do believe if the harder drugs were to be made legal we would see a substantial jump in deaths related to their use.

I don't disagree - but I think the drop in deaths from legalizing the drug industry would more than make up the difference. Even if that weren't true, who am I to forbid anyone from throwing their life away on the chemistry of bliss?

[ffhounddog]

There are more secondary and third order effects that happen with drugs that make me not want to legalize them. It is what causes more problems than being a functioning druck.

[BobLoblaw]

I'm Italian but truth is truth regardless. Tam's post is solid.

The history of alcohol is well documented. It ain't goin away no matter how you feel about it. I also agree that smack, crack, and meth have shown (without intervention) to lead to broken lives with regularity. Pot on the other hand is much more like alcohol in that people partaking CAN retain a long, functional life without spinning out of control. Plus, it's a ton of money taken from the gangs and cartels without ruining lives. I honestly think that fact alone is worth pursuing even if it means DEA gets less big busts.

Realistically, it's a culture problem. It must be fixed from within. A hometown leader is the only hope.

[john556]

I honestly don't have a problem with people who choose to ruin their lives with drugs so long as others aren't affected by their stupid choice. But in such a codependent society it becomes almost impossible. One exception to this would be smoking as there is almost no way to do it where it doesn't affect those around you.

[GardoneVT]

I'm Italian but truth is truth regardless. Tam's post is solid.

The history of alcohol is well documented. It ain't goin away no matter how you feel about it. I also agree that smack, crack, and meth have shown (without intervention) to lead to broken lives with regularity. Pot on the other hand is much more like alcohol in that people partaking CAN retain a long, functional life without spinning out of control. Plus, it's a ton of money taken from the gangs and cartels without ruining lives. I honestly think that fact alone is worth pursuing even if it means DEA gets less big busts.

Realistically, it's a culture problem. It must be fixed from within. A hometown leader is the only hope.

In terms of relevance to violence glorifying ghettos, drugs won't make a difference. Take away the profit on illegal drugs, and the criminal culture will sell fake credit cards, prostitute kids, or turn to some other crime while larger society gets high on legal dope.

That's the core problem, the culture which says in urban America that being a slang talking thug is better then being a productive member of society.