Looking for Opinions on the Current State of Leupold, Specifically the New Mark4HD

[stomridertx]

I like my MILs too but the TMR reticle in the Mark 4HD 1-4.5 is quite difficult to use. This image shows the TMR reticle vs Vortex's VMR-2 reticle vs Steiner P3TR reticle, scaled so that 5 MILs is roughly equal in each reticle, against a white background. I own or have owned scopes with all three reticles, and against most backgrounds the stadia are more difficult to discern than the reticle diagrams in the specs would lead you to believe. In my experience, Vortex's VMR-2 is the easiest to actually MIL something with, followed by the P3TR using the 5 MIL mark and estimating a percentage of 5 MILs, and finally I can struggle to try to count the MIL marks on TMR at 4.5x.

Extremely helpful, thank you.

[ccmdfd]

For another, even Nightforce's biggest fans have to admit that Leupold's reticle game is far superior.

Man, I'm glad to hear it's not just me.

I'd love to combine the ruggedness and dependability of the NF, with the reticle of the Leupold, and the eye relief of Trijicon (or perhaps Swaro).

[WDR]

Man, I'm glad to hear it's not just me.

I'd love to combine the ruggedness and dependability of the NF, with the reticle of the Leupold, and the eye relief of Trijicon (or perhaps Swaro).

NF seem to be a lot heavier than other brands. That doesn't matter to some folks, but it matters to me, when I'm carrying a rifle at high elevations for miles. Trade offs everywhere.

I've been looking at a VX5HD 3-15X to go on the Savage .223 I bought,and weight compared to other similar scopes can be significant. I have not decided to pull the trigger yet. I will admit, some of the stories of VX5's not tracking and losing zero makes me hesitate a little. I'm just not sure there is a comparable scope available with similar weight, power range, and optical quality, from a brand I'd trust... that also isn't made in China. I've sorta looked at Trijicons offerings, but I can't find a place local that carries them in stock to go peer through one before buying.

[ccmdfd]

NF seem to be a lot heavier than other brands. That doesn't matter to some folks, but it matters to me, when I'm carrying a rifle at high elevations for miles. Trade offs everywhere.

I've been looking at a VX5HD 3-15X to go on the Savage .223 I bought,and weight compared to other similar scopes can be significant. I have not decided to pull the trigger yet. I will admit, some of the stories of VX5's not tracking and losing zero makes me hesitate a little. I'm just not sure there is a comparable scope available with similar weight, power range, and optical quality, from a brand I'd trust... that also isn't made in China. I've sorta looked at Trijicons offerings, but I can't find a place local that carries them in stock to go peer through one before buying.

Yeah, I just put a 4-20 VX5 on a 300WSM. So far only 15 shots. Got my fingers crossed. It was on sale/showroom demo.

I do like the dial design on the Leupolds. Locking with press button and good clicks. I wish more companies would do something like that.

[Unobtanium]

Man, I'm glad to hear it's not just me.

I'd love to combine the ruggedness and dependability of the NF, with the reticle of the Leupold, and the eye relief of Trijicon (or perhaps Swaro).

When Leupold makes a decent LPVO let me know. They have yet to put a reticle in one that compares to the fcdmx, even once you get past Leupold quality issues.

[stomridertx]

Doing further reticle comparison talked me off the ledge. I think I "want" to like Leupold, but the only upside is weight. I'm going to be keeping what I have until some company finally figures out the MPVO we all want.

[okie john]

NF seem to be a lot heavier than other brands.

Yes and no. I find that if you insist on illuminated reticles and reliable dialing, most hunting scopes worth owning come in around 20-22 ounces, with LPVOs 4-5 ounces less.

Instead, I look to save weight in other places. I'm OK with two-piece bases and Warne Mountain Tech rings for hunting rifles. A 12-12.5" LOP also cuts weight and shifts weight forward, which improves balance more than you'd think. That alone can make a rifle feel lighter when you carry it all day.

For instance, my stainless Model 70 Classic 30-06 in a Bansner stock had a 13" LOP. With a Nightforce 3-10x42 SHV, a 20 MOA rail, and SWFA low rings, it weighed 8 pounds, 13.28 ounces. With the LOP shortened, Warne Mountain Tech Rings, steel Burris Tactical bases, and the same scope, it now weighs 8 pounds 8 ounces. I may swap that scope for a NF NXS 1-8, which only weighs 17 ounces, and will bring this rifle down to 8 pounds 3 ounces.

To be honest, I'm not sure that I want a 30-06 much lighter than that.


Okie John

[Tokarev]

I have the 183316 model. That's the TMR fire dot reticle with the locking elevation turret.

Pros are that the scope itself is bright and clear and it is fairly lightweight. For the money Leupold did a great job here. The power ring turns cleanly and easily. Exterior finish is perfect, etc. The eye box is quite good.

In hindsight I'd have probably been happier with 183315 wirh the capped turret and the simpler BDC reticle. The TMR dots are quite small and too closely spaced which makes them hard to use. The fire dot is bright on max but I think the Steiner is brighter at its top setting. In fact I'd say the P3TR reticle is probably better overall than either reticle Leupold is offering here.







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[Tokarev]

Here's a recent review.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-test-44815669

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[Tokarev]

These are the better scopes, in my opinion.

https://www.leupold.com/shop/riflesc...d-rifle-scopes

With that said, I have no experience with the "patrol" branded versions. My experience is with the VX6HD with the CMR2 reticle. It is my understanding that Leupold branded these as "patrol" to make them more marketable to law enforcement.

Caveat here is again the turrets and reticle. The CMR2 is generally pretty useful but isn't what we'd call daylight bright. But at least the outer circle is generally thick and heavy enough to be seen against various backgrounds so the scope works okay with the illumination off. But why include exposed (but locking) turrets when the reticle has some bullet drop info?

The other version of the Patrol is a basic cross hair with capped turrets. I believe this scope is what LAPD wanted for their LVPO program.

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