If this happens to you, I'd suggest that you have a training deficiency.Originally Posted by Danjojo
If this happens to you, I'd suggest that you have a training deficiency.
No.
If you get a bad round and rely on "second strike" during a fight, you'll die clicking the trigger in vain.I shot a pals 10mm EAA and encounterd a dud CorBon 10mm .After ejecting the round and finishing the mag,I stuck it back in the next set of rounds.
Another failure to fire.I then loaded it solo and proceeded to click the trigger 11 more times .
No bang.
If your gun doesn't work,step one is to get a bullet in the chamber which will.
I haven't shot LEM much, only pistols I still own are traditional DA/SA.
I'm not talking about what you train to do and what is ideal protocal but what happens with full speed actual shooting. Mr. Green himself mentioned it happening to him at least once in a match.
I would see it fairly often on Marine Corps pistol ranges. I don't know anybody who actually trains for it intentionally.
I'll start by saying the LEM trigger is very responsive.The light travel of the trigger after the first shot means you get to reset almost instantly .It leads to a feel for the shooter of the gun being ready to fire before they are.With the LEM,it encourages you to shoot it faster.You speed up...and it's still just a hair faster then you.Speed up your trigger press and the gun still feels like a wellspring of untapped speed potential.It's actually somewhat addicting .
But shooting fast before you mean to?Not in my experience.
This.
I had it happen at IDPA Nationals one year. Got a click instead of bang in SA mode, trigger pushed all the way forward and my finger went, too, with no conscious thought on my part. Finished the stage and only then did someone comment on the failure to fire I experienced.
I've seen it in Simunition training plenty of times, too, when the SIM guns have double strike capability.
The reality is that when you aren't expecting a stoppage, the time to process a stoppage is greater than the time needed to press the trigger again reflexively. If the gun goes off, you might have a vague mental image of something wrong (sight didn't lift, etc.) but if the gun is running again that is what your attention will be on.
Pulling the trigger again before your brain catches up to take over consciously doesn't waste any time whatsoever.
I wouldn't practice pulling the trigger again on a misfire, but I've had it work enough times that I wouldn't discount its value, either.
Wait a minute, did you just say something about pulling the trigger faster than your brain is processing information........I read on the internet that I am crazy to think that this happens.......
Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
"If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".
Bring that over to the other thread if you want to dissect it. I'm happy to, just don't want to drag this thread into that mayhem.Wait a minute, did you just say something about pulling the trigger faster than your brain is processing information........I read on the internet that I am crazy to think that this happens......
No, I have a headache. I'll just stay being the crazy guy.
Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard
"If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".
I guess it depends on the user's experience.
I knew right away when my buddy's 10mm didn't fire, and racked the dud round out of the chamber by sheer habit. After multiple pulls of the trigger , I left the range without firing that round. I can't tell you why it didn't go bang, but being a 10mm CorBon round it could very well have ended up in my friend's gun for business purposes.I don't want to trigger a pointless e-debate, just making an observation of the other side of the coin.
nyeti, ToddG, and countless others... thank you.
I've spent a non-trivial number of hours over the last few weeks reading this and other threads on p-f. (Side note: I can't believe it took me this long to discover p-f; I believe it was an offhand mention or link by Tamara in a blog entry which brought me here.) As a direct result, I reconsidered my plans to sell my v1 USP40 and instead convert it to LEM. I also got motivated to take off the Hogue grip that I was using to protect my hands from the super-aggressive checkering on the backstrap and use file/sandpaper to (gasp!) compromise the Germanic perfection of my USP's plastic.
The LEM conversion of the action was pretty straightforward, except for my propensity to launch the trigger detent & spring like a tiny missile into dark corners of the workshop. Three times. One of which was into the shop trash can. {sigh} The TRS replacement, however, was pretty annoying until I found a really good picture online showing how the spring was supposed to sit. This orientation was not at all clear from the written instructions, and frankly wouldn't have been necessary except that I found the pull with the stock USP TRS scary-light.
I'm now running the "Todd Green" configuration (stock USP springs except for heavy TRS) and it's amazing what a difference it made for me, immediately, in dry-fire with my Laserlyte target. It's reassuring to be able to see how much of my frustration with delivering tight groups at 3m was the gun, not me -- my LEM group sizes on the Laserlyte are less than half of what they were DA/SA. This had been particularly frustrating as I've routinely borrowed random 1911's from friends and shot 1-2" groups at 3-5m on the first try.
So... thanks, for all of the great information shared here, and specifically for convincing me to give the USP one more try before moving on to something else. It's like I have a new HK to play with for only ~$150 spent.
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