Single action revolver discusson and general shenanigans

[Half Moon]

That eluded me because I just realized that I do not own a DA revolver with a hammer.

It would be interesting to see someone work up and train with a SA pistol intended for anti-personnel self defense qua self defense, as opposed to a hunting revolver pressed into that role or being carried for nostalgia's sake.

Do keep us posted.

I read an article a few years ago testing the Smith 1917, Colt 1917, and 1911 against modern practical drills. Of the revolvers, the Smith came out ahead used DA. WW1 doctrine though was Single Action. In SA the Colt came out ahead. This mostly came down to hammer spur design with the Smith being more difficult to manipulate. I could see the traditional SA only hammer designs taking that up a notch further on performance.

[okie john]

As a confirmed reference book junkie, what are some of the go-to single action reference books? History, ‘smithing, maintenance, first hand accounts of usage, etc. Doesn’t have to be brand specific either.

Anything by Elmer Keith, especially Sixguns, Hell, I Was There, or Sixguns Cartridges and Loads, plus anything by John Taffin, especially Big Bore Sixguns, Big Bore Handguns, and Single Action Sixguns. Both also wrote lots of magazine articles about single-action revolvers, as did Ross Seyfried, Brian Pearce, Mike Venturino, and others. Seyfried and Pearce really need to compile their works in hardcover. Skeeter Skelton wrote about single-action a lot as well, both in magazines and books.

I'd also look at Fast & Fancy Revolver Shooting by Ed McGivern, both volumes of The Colt Single Action Revolvers: A Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen, and The Custom Revolver by Hamilton Bowen, which is basically high-class revolver porn.


Okie John

[Half Moon]

Anything by Elmer Keith, especially Sixguns, Hell, I Was There, or Sixguns Cartridges and Loads, plus anything by John Taffin, especially Big Bore Sixguns, Big Bore Handguns, and Single Action Sixguns. Both also wrote lots of magazine articles about single-action revolvers, as did Ross Seyfried, Brian Pearce, Mike Venturino, and others. Seyfried and Pearce really need to compile their works in hardcover. Skeeter Skelton wrote about single-action a lot as well, both in magazines and books.

I'd also look at Fast & Fancy Revolver Shooting by Ed McGivern, both volumes of The Colt Single Action Revolvers: A Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen, and The Custom Revolver by Hamilton Bowen, which is basically high-class revolver porn.


Okie John

For Taffin, his website has a good number of articles available:

http://sixguns.com/

[feudist]

I’m enough of a nerd, in a quaisi-HEMA sort of way, that I’ve practiced with an SA wheelie for this. With the caveat that we all know it’s 2024, not 1924, here’s some internet thoughts on the SA wheel gun:

https://www.athlonoutdoors.com/artic...self-defense/?

https://www.swatmag.com/article/sing...ion-revolvers/

http://www.marksmanshipmatters.com/s...elf-defense-2/

Regrettably, it appears that Il Ling New’s Ruger-sponsored videos on defensive use and proper administrative handling of the ol’ hogleg are no longer on youtube.

At any rate, nobody’s first choice, but better than a kind word alone.

That last article, by Larry Mudgett no less, was extremely interesting.

Apropos of nothing, about 15 years ago two officers in my precinct got into a running gunfight with a guy armed with a SA revolver in .44 magnum. They eventually captured him, but they were mightily impressed at the CRACKBOOM and sheet of flame along with the terrifying thwack each time he fired and hit anything near them.

[Rex G]

I do not consider fast splits to be important for defense, but, for those who do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy4D5n8LQ6U

[Crazy Dane]

3 decades ago, (I don't feel as old typing it that way) I had Ruger Blackhawks in all 3 barrel lengths in .45 convertible, 1 .357 4 5/8 barrel, 1 Super Blackhawk .44 mag 4 5/8. I had a Bisley .45 colt 7.5 barrel that my oldest has now. The one I wish I had back is the Single six in .32 H&R Mag. All were sold off during hard times, my son saved the Bisley from being redistributed though.

Financially stable again, my revolver collection is growing, all D/A, not a single action in sight. Yes, pun intended.

I find myself at time looking at pics and browsing the interwbs for single actions going Ooo and Ah but a couple weeks ago I went to the gun show. There were a few there to fondle but I didn't get the Ooos and Ahs that I do looking at them.

If I was to get a single action it would have to be a .45 convertible with a 4 5/8 barrel. I just worry it would languish in the safe while my D/As pull duty. I don't see where it would do anything any better than what I have now.

[awp_101]

3 decades ago, (I don't feel as old typing it that way) I had Ruger Blackhawks in all 3 barrel lengths in .45 convertible, 1 .357 4 5/8 barrel, 1 Super Blackhawk .44 mag 4 5/8. I had a Bisley .45 colt 7.5 barrel that my oldest has now. The one I wish I had back is the Single six in .32 H&R Mag. All were sold off during hard times, my son saved the Bisley from being redistributed though.

Financially stable again, my revolver collection is growing, all D/A, not a single action in sight. Yes, pun intended.

I find myself at time looking at pics and browsing the interwbs for single actions going Ooo and Ah but a couple weeks ago I went to the gun show. There were a few there to fondle but I didn't get the Ooos and Ahs that I do looking at them.

If I was to get a single action it would have to be a .45 convertible with a 4 5/8 barrel. I just worry it would languish in the safe while my D/As pull duty. I don't see where it would do anything any better than what I have now.

I've been off and on the SA train several times over the years. Usually when I jumped off it was due to sights or something else caught my eye that I wanted more. I'm finally to the point that I accept single actions for me are simply fun guns and I don't need a perfect sight picture and I don't need to shoot it to the same level as my defensive pistols. Breaking out the Single Six for the first time in way too long reminded me how much enjoyment I can have based on fun factor alone.

[Rex G]

Clint Smith went what seemed to be full-immersion, for a short while, into late-19th-Century weapons, but I never saw that he compiled all of what he learned, about single-action sixgunning, into one write-up or one single video. The best write-up that I recall seeing was penned by another author, in either “Guns” or “American Handgunner” magazines, that covered a class that Clint Smith taught, with everyone using period firearms and leather. A diligent search for Thunder Ranch video presentations will reveal bits and pieces of his thoughts on single-action sixgunning.

There is MUCH chaff, and very little wheat, in you-tube presentations. Many of the presentations center around emptying the cylinder quickly, when true street wisdom would indicate that one should constantly assess, and pick one’s targets carefully. Anything that is “cowboy action” will have been developed with the use of very light loads.

I do not remember the size of the targets typically used in “cowboy action” matches, but, they may well be considerably larger than the true vital area of a human opponent, and, as I understand it, any hit that “rings steel” is acceptable. So, “cowboy action” matches may not be a best preparation for defensive sixgunning. To be clear, I am not “hating” the sport of “cowboy action,” overall. Some matches may well be quite challenging, especially in the shoot-off stages used to narrow-down the higher-placing shooters, and, any competitor can choose to aim carefully, rather than being content with edge hits on steel.

[awp_101]

For the sake of consolidation since I've posted this in other threads.

There's an interesting article by John Linebaugh at http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=12


When the guy who invented the 475 Linebaugh says that a 260-grain slug at 900 fps is big medicine, I listen.

Also this



Okie John

It appears that link is dead. Is this the same article? Gun Notes: A Common Sense Look at Handgun Hunting by John Linebaugh

[Malamute]

That eluded me because I just realized that I do not own a DA revolver with a hammer.

It would be interesting to see someone work up and train with a SA pistol intended for anti-personnel self defense qua self defense, as opposed to a hunting revolver pressed into that role or being carried for nostalgia's sake.

Do keep us posted.

Ive used SAs a fair amount over time, mostly what would be considered field use, but the aspect of defensive use when alone and out in the hills or wherever is an obvious side note. Ive tried and used different things over time, and have never considered an SA revolver unsuitable for defensive use, the primary difference being reload speed compared to DAs or autos. One part of the equation for me is I shoot SA and DA revolvers better (and it seems with much less effort to achieve and maintain any given level) than any autos Ive had or tried, despite some concerted effort shooting 1911 types. If one wants to get a little better training or whatever you want to call it, shooting modern stuff like steel plate shoots and some drills may useful.

I havent looked at all the linked vids yet, though one started watching showed a guy shooting very quickly with almost no off hand contact, only cocking the hammer. It looks like hes shooting very light loads. I think i will stick with giving more support and grip with the off hand and just running the hammer with the off thumb.

The few steel plate shoots Ive done I used SA, DA and 1911, I shoot better with revolvers and as well with an SA with 45 colt with standard power loads (250 gr cast @ 925 fps) as with a K frame Smith with 38s. The end question to me was, is it better to be able to reload faster and not shoot as well, or to be able to shoot better but have a slower reload? Higher capacity gives another level to the question, but in my life, high volume shootouts are not high on the relative reality scale, besides the same question of shoot better and not be as likely to need a reload. Your answers to those questions are likely different than mine. Ive shot vastly more SA and DA revolvers than autos in my life, and even of given unlimited free ammo, thats not likely to change.

Hammer spurs. The WWI period hammer spurs on DA guns werent very good. Low, shallow, fine checkering. Ive had several 1917 Smiths, one of the things that helped me decide to sell them was the greatly better hammer spurs on later Smiths. I like the service size, ive ground several target hammers down to service size. The very sharp deep checkering feels very positive to me. I use SA in Smiths quite a lot. Shooting two handed, the off hand runs the hammer, same as an SA gun, no change in grip, its simple and quick. I need to practice one handed shooting of SA guns more, Ive seen some that can run them pretty expeditiously.

As a geezer gun, Im ok with an SA revolver when the size of the gun isnt a handicap. Im able to comfortably shoot a larger or more powerful round in an SA gun than DA gun, making the reload speed seem like less of a factor. At some point Im intending to acquire one of the Cimarron/Uberti model P old model 357 with 4 3/4" barrel. We shall see if it has the same feel as the Colt 357 SAA I shot years ago and liked so much. They have a version with 3 1/2" barrel as well, it may be a fair concealed carry gun but for starters Im going with the 4 3/4" as a general purpose gun.

I wouldnt try to tell anyone an SA revolver is great or even good for them, though in my use I dont feel too handicapped. They can be reloaded more quickly than most assume, but thats not the focus here at the moment.

Ive shot a small handful of cowboy type shoots. its fun, and uses guns I like, but Im just not that into it. Id rather use the guns in other types of shoots, like steel plates with no reloads needed, and hunting small game.

As a basically useless but fun exercise or parlor trick, I want to try this. I try to keep in mind shooting should be fun as well as have some practical aspects.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WBqBfRsmybo