Good videos on teaching the draw stroke/press out

[Gio]

Could one of you define an 'index draw' please?

An index draw is when you look at the specific spot you want to shoot, and draw the gun in the most direct, linear, and efficient motion to bring the sights to that spot. Generally, the shooter is not looking for the sights until the sights are intersecting with the visual spot they are looking at.

An L shaped draw is when you draw the gun up to your upper chest, then start presenting it forward toward the target. Often (but not always) on an L shaped draw, the shooter is trying to visually pick up the sights while the gun is moving from the upper chest position out to the target.

[Clusterfrack]

I like to break it into two parts:
1. Automatic sight alignment. Draw and sights are aligned or dot is in the middle of the window.
2. Automatic point of aim. Sights or dot appear where you look.

[Joe S]

I like to break it into two parts:
1. Automatic sight alignment. Draw and sights are aligned or dot is in the middle of the window.
2. Automatic point of aim. Sights or dot appear where you look.

If you were so inclined, could you expand a bit on this?

[Clusterfrack]

I like to break it into two parts:
1. Automatic sight alignment. Draw and sights are aligned or dot is in the middle of the window.
2. Automatic point of aim. Sights or dot appear where you look.

If you were so inclined, could you expand a bit on this?

As @Gio posted, developing an "index" allows the shooter to look at a spot, draw, and have the sights/optic aimed at that spot.

This requires two skills:

1) Automatic sight alignment. Can the shooter extend the gun from high ready and have the dot appear in the center of the window 99.9% of the time? If a shooter "loses the dot" they don't have this skill well developed. In my experience, that requires many 1000's of reps just on this. Next, is establishing that index from other positions, including from the draw.

A more difficult skill is 2) automatic point of aim. The shooter simply looks at a spot, and can extend, draw, transition, turn, or move and have the dot appear in the middle of the window and on target.

[backtrail540]

SLG's take -

https://pistol-training.com/the-draw/

[Darth_Uno]

Was talking to a friend about this yesterday, because of this very thread. And he said that he does the "elevator" draw. Because nobody told him not to, and that's just what he ended up with. I guess I never paid that much attention to his draw. As far as running drills, we're pretty much neck-and-neck. Our consensus was, much like hitting a baseball or playing guitar, "it's not stupid if it works" but you need to be good enough to know what you're talking about before you go telling someone to always/never do this or that.

[MickAK]

Fighters have different punches, so there's no reason we can't have different draws.

This post stuck in my head for a few weeks. It took awhile to sort out why it did. I think it's a good analogy.

I think it comes down to understanding performance you can rely on at a certain level of proficiency and having a good understanding of the time commitment each level of proficiency demands.

If someone rushes me I have a couple of different strikes that I know to be solid fight enders. Right hook and right uppercut are great ones. Lights out strikes. But they require very exact timing and placement to do that. I know how much time it takes to be proficient enough to land those reliably, even against an untrained person. It's considerable.

Conversely a backing up overhand right is less likely to be a fight ender. It can be, but it's pretty dependent on the other guy being where I need him to be. But I can throw it whole ass and still be in a good place to move forward with what I need to do.

So given time constraints I practice that more than any other strike, because I can't rely on being in top shape when the flag goes up. I'm going to be where I am, all of life's interventions considered.

I look at an index draw vs a protected draw the same way. What I've experienced is the first thing to go when training slows down is absolute awareness of muzzle clearance and the time penalty involved in not using the most efficient draw stroke isn't worth the potential problems that come along with that lack of awareness. So I practice both but I lean more heavily towards a protected draw.

I've noticed over the years that we take our training cues from professionals while not being professionals ourselves. Professionals are obviously the ones to learn from, but I pay the most attention to professionals that understand that their students aren't professionals.

[Joe S]

@MickAK, I like this line of thought.

[TCinVA]

So given time constraints I practice that more than any other strike, because I can't rely on being in top shape when the flag goes up. I'm going to be where I am, all of life's interventions considered.

I look at an index draw vs a protected draw the same way. What I've experienced is the first thing to go when training slows down is absolute awareness of muzzle clearance and the time penalty involved in not using the most efficient draw stroke isn't worth the potential problems that come along with that lack of awareness. So I practice both but I lean more heavily towards a protected draw.

I've noticed over the years that we take our training cues from professionals while not being professionals ourselves. Professionals are obviously the ones to learn from, but I pay the most attention to professionals that understand that their students aren't professionals.

This right here.

My "index" left entirely when I contracted COVID and suffered nerve damage that I hope isn't permanent, but has impacted everything I do with my hands. It was literally here one day, gone the next. I had to think about keeping a grip on things in my hands or I would drop them for weeks. I was struggling to run the manual transmission in my daily driver. I couldn't play songs I've known for years on the guitar anymore.

I have to be a lot more deliberate about everything I'm doing now, and that includes running a gun. I don't have the luxury of "muscle memory" anymore.

It's not completely back at square one because unlike before I understand what I'm trying to do and the steps involved. I have a good process and I can work through that process and still get good results. The more tired/dehydrated I am, the harder I have to concentrate to keep those good results.

My peak level performance is degraded...but my consistent performance is better than ever. That's because the injury has forced me to refine my ability to direct focus on the right parts at the right time.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Just throwing this out - saw it on Greg's weekly feed:

https://buildingshooters.com/stop-te...wstroke-first/

Almost every law enforcement agency in the country starts new recruits out with firearms training by giving them a duty holster and handgun (simulated or real), then asking them to practice drawing from the holster.

In some cases, this is done without ANY instruction provided on how to accomplish this task at all. In many cases, this is done prior to recruits attending the academy and in almost all cases this is literally the first exposure to firearms training new police recruits have ever had.

This means that teaching the draw is done before the trainees know (by which we mean possess the ability to perform with unconscious competence) how to properly grip and control a pistol during recoil.

What is the end result? It is not just bad shooters. Often, it is unfixably bad shooters.

Not promoting this view - just FYI.